Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

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Daybreak
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#196 Post by Daybreak »

Oberlus wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:52 pm No way to explain that better.
Jumping one starlane costs 1 fuel.
Check it out in a game.
Yes, but I think you missed the point
If a starlane is longer than one jump for a slower ship with only 1 fuel left, then it cant jump that starlane, even if the total deducted from its tank is only 1. - seen that many times.

However as Wobbly experienced, you can set your slow ship with 1 fuel to travel to that destination which is longer than 1 jump away and it looks all ok, but it won't jump.

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LienRag
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#197 Post by LienRag »

I believe that something changed in recent versions.
I had (IIRC) similar situations in past games : the previous behavior of getting a sitrep one turn too soon left place to a situation where a ship just getting one fuel through regeneration is not able to move.


Also, Daybreak, you should use a more precise vocabulary if you don't want to confuse everybody.
I guess you mean "more than one turn jump" ? Because one starlane is still one jump and one fuel.

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Oberlus
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#198 Post by Oberlus »

Daybreak wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:18 am Yes, but I think you missed the point
If a starlane is longer than one jump for a slower ship with only 1 fuel left, then it cant jump that starlane, even if the total deducted from its tank is only 1. - seen that many times.
No. I'm not missing any point. But you are refusing to double-check your facts. You are so sure of yourself, always.
Whenever I read you saying "I'm sure of X", I know probability of occurrence of "not X" can be quite high. Like in this case, in which you are sure of having seen many times something that has never happened.
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BlueAward
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#199 Post by BlueAward »

Another glitch I have seen was that for whatever reason move orders stop showing in GUI but they seem to still register, but it is very confusing to go blind like that. Luckily after exiting the game and reentering (not needed to restart the application) it would fix itself. But then I would check if all move orders seemed still allright , for paranoia's sake. Happened a few times to me

Daybreak
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#200 Post by Daybreak »

LienRag wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:04 am Also, Daybreak, you should use a more precise vocabulary if you don't want to confuse everybody.
I guess you mean "more than one turn jump" ? Because one starlane is still one jump and one fuel.
Thanks Lienrag - I thought it was evident in my image, but probably did not know how to put it in correct language, and yes a more than one turn jump for a slow ship.
Oberlus wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:34 am No. I'm not missing any point. But you are refusing to double-check your facts. You are so sure of yourself, always.
Whenever I read you saying "I'm sure of X", I know probability of occurrence of "not X" can be quite high. Like in this case, in which you are sure of having seen many times something that has never happened.
I said I think, but its obvious you are not missing the point - and it has happened at least once, as wobbly reported.

Not going to argue about it. Maybe I should not say "many times" and be more definite, and say from memory I have seen it approximately 4-6 times.

I dont know why it happens and in fact probably did not notice when it did not happen. I actually thought it was correct as the jump was more than 1 jump for that particualr ship. Now I know it is an error, I will look out for it again. At least we have a saved game of Wobbly's incident, and maybe a third party (not involved in game) can determine why.

Keep in mind Oberlus I have never seen anything in the Pedia, that tells me that one starlane jump costs 1 fuel. I dont even think it exists. Which was why I thought the behaviour was normal.

I wonder if there is a rounding error of some type on the fuel, so although it reads 1 fuel, it is only 0.99 fuel- just throwing this out there, but it is a total guess based on what may be happening.

Oberlus Can you try it with a spacial flux hull, Arc Disruptor and Active scanner.
BlueAward wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:41 am Another glitch I have seen was that for whatever reason move orders stop showing in GUI but they seem to still register, but it is very confusing to go blind like that. Luckily after exiting the game and reentering (not needed to restart the application) it would fix itself. But then I would check if all move orders seemed still allright , for paranoia's sake. Happened a few times to me
Yes have seen that one as well - I kept thinking the game had frozen, but as you say, exiting and entering the game and you can see the orders were received - hard to duplicate, and I actually thought it was something to do with my machine and game.

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Oberlus
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#201 Post by Oberlus »

Daybreak wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:17 am Not going to argue about it - I have seen it many times.
So you are arguing with me :lol:
Daybreak wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:17 am Now I know it is an error, I will look out for it again. At least we have a saved game of Wobbly's incident, and maybe a third party (not involved in game) can determine why.
If you see that bug that you are sure to have spot previously, take a screenshot, please.
Daybreak wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:17 amI wonder if there is a rounding error of some type on the fuel, so although it reads 1 fuel, it is only 0.99 fuel- just throwing this out there, but it is a total guess based on what may be happening.
That was and still is my first bet, some rounding inconsistencies plus a bug in the code base: e.g. the client thinks 1.00, the server thinks 0.99, the order is sent and (the real bug) the ship is set to "travelling", the server doesn't move the ship (because not enough fuel: 0.99<1.0), following turns the ship is stuck because it can no longer refuel (it is a travelling ship outside of supply, so no +0.1 per turn or anything).
Nothing to do with starlanes length.
Daybreak wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:17 am Oberlus Can you try it with a spacial flux hull, Arc Disruptor and Active scanner.
Can you do it? I'm swamped at work. Plus I am sure I'll get exactly the same result, not motivated.

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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#202 Post by wobbly »

Daybreak wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:17 am Keep in mind Oberlus I have never seen anything in the Pedia, that tells me that one starlane jump costs 1 fuel. I dont even think it exists. Which was why I thought the behaviour was normal.
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BlueAward
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#203 Post by BlueAward »

wobbly wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:46 pm
Daybreak wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:17 am Keep in mind Oberlus I have never seen anything in the Pedia, that tells me that one starlane jump costs 1 fuel. I dont even think it exists. Which was why I thought the behaviour was normal.
Fuel.png
To be fair, that does not say 1 fuel per traversed starlane. Just "some fuel", the same way as it is not specyfing exactly what "slowly regenerate" means (0.1 in standard case, with exceptions like organic hulls). Even if it specified "1 fuel per starlane traversed", it would not necessarily be obvious either, for a non-native speaker at least.

I was - for a very long time! - under the impression that you consumed 1 fuel per turn of travel, not per starlane traversed. That seemed natural to me, and I never paid enough attention (did not have the need to do so) in SP to figure out otherwise. Only in this MP game I learned how it really works (luckily quite early on, not just now). So no, it is not obvious how this works until you pay some extra attention or are just told in no uncertain terms.

Also, you don't have to stop at a supplied star system to be resupplied with fuel, you can do a flyby, so that's incorrect info I would think

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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#204 Post by wobbly »

BlueAward wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:10 pm To be fair, that does not say 1 fuel per traversed starlane. Just "some fuel", the same way as it is not specyfing exactly what "slowly regenerate" means (0.1 in standard case, with exceptions like organic hulls). Even if it specified "1 fuel per starlane traversed", it would not necessarily be obvious either, for a non-native speaker at least.
Well true, but in all fairness it only takes paying attention to the fuel gauge on 1 ship in game to learn how it actually works. Anyway, I'll modify the pedia entry.
BlueAward wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:10 pm Also, you don't have to stop at a supplied star system to be resupplied with fuel, you can do a flyby, so that's incorrect info I would think
Dated I believe. It worked that way many versions ago and no one updated the entry.

Daybreak
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#205 Post by Daybreak »

Wobbly you report something

I say I have seen this befoe - thought it was normal. I thought I was helping by saying I had seen it to.

and then basically attacked, BECAUSE I SAID IT WRONG or whatever

FFS

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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#206 Post by wobbly »

Daybreak wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 3:29 pm Wobbly you report something

I say I have seen this befoe - thought it was normal. I thought I was helping by saying I had seen it to.

and then basically attacked, BECAUSE I SAID IT WRONG or whatever

FFS
Horse ship. If you want to feel like you are being attacked all the time go for it. I'm sick of it.

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Oberlus
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#207 Post by Oberlus »

Daybreak, maybe I should not point to you when you are so adamant on something that you are wrong about.
Also, maybe you should not be so adamant when you are so sure of something that no one else believes, or at least give it up after the second time someone tells you you are wrong.
In any case, this is not a drama for me, and I hope it is not for anyone else.

I don't think anyone is attacking your person, Daybreak, only your positions on relevant subjects.
If it makes you feel so bothered when others tell you you are wrong, maybe you should not be so generous in giving your opinions and repeatedly reassuring them
Nevertheless, the above uncalled advice is unnecessary when you have proofs of whatever you were defending against the hordes of your feral enemies.

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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#208 Post by Endhu »

Not on topic but I'll be gone from this Saturday to Monday. I'd appreciate a volunteer to delegate. If that is not possible I should be able to take my computer with me, though it would be quite uncomfortable.

Daybreak
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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#209 Post by Daybreak »

How about I explain it a different way

I did not realise that with one fuel would allow you to travel one starlane, irrespective of the fact that the jump for a ship may be longer than 1 jump

and it is in the realm of possibilities, that both are correct. That was the point I was making.
This is possible -
* That one starlane cost one fuel (which is correct)
* That a ship with one fuel cant jump a starlane if the jump is 1.x away (Which I now know is wrong - but still possible)
* That a ship with 2 fuel jumps a 1.x starlane, but only has one fuel deducted.

I was not adamant about this - I thgought that is how it worked.

But both you Oberlus and Wobbly did not correct the above when I said it, stating 1 starlane costs 1 Fuel, which still meant the above scenario worked. Go on, reread the posts.

and then
Oberlus wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:34 am Whenever I read you saying "I'm sure of X", I know probability of occurrence of "not X" can be quite high. Like in this case, in which you are sure of having seen many times something that has never happened.
This is a snide comment

and there are many other examples of snide comments you make to beat the other person down.

For a long time I just ignored you, but no longer.

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Re: Twenty-first game on the multiplayer slow game server

#210 Post by wobbly »

Daybreak wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:44 pm But both you Oberlus and Wobbly did not correct the above when I said it, stating 1 starlane costs 1 Fuel, which still meant the above scenario worked. Go on, reread the posts.
Yeah I'm rereading my posts. You thought fuel worked differently to how it is. No problem. BlueAward had the same confusion too. I pointed out that 1 starlane is 1 fuel. You said you didn't think it was in the pedia, I pointed out that it was. You then threw a tantrum about me attacking you and it's not the 1st time you've done this. So no, Daybreak. I stand by my original comment. I'm sick of it. Either don't get into arguments with people, or don't play the victim if people argue back. One or the other.
Endhu wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:42 pm Not on topic
Considering the topic seems to be another stupid argument, feel free to be off topic.

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