Twentieth game on the multiplayer slow game server

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Endhu
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Re: Twentieth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#421 Post by Endhu »

o01eg wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:46 pm I've tried to build revision in manjaro docker and fixed compilation with #include <memory> in parse/Parse.h.
Thanks for taking the time. I'll try that fix soon

wobbly
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Re: Twentieth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#422 Post by wobbly »

Server is timing out when I try and connect. Will try again this evening

Endhu
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Re: Twentieth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#423 Post by Endhu »

Endhu wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:05 am
o01eg wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 8:46 pm I've tried to build revision in manjaro docker and fixed compilation with #include <memory> in parse/Parse.h.
Thanks for taking the time. I'll try that fix soon
Correct version built successfully

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LienRag
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Re: Twentieth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#424 Post by LienRag »

About the in-game chat discussion :

Stopping the game because it will take a long time to end it ?
That's utterly ridiculous !
If FreeOrion's endgame always (or most of the time) comes to a boring grind, that is a fundamental flaw of the game that needs to be addressed, and probably quite quickly.
Especially if it's worse with the new Influence mechanisme, it means that it doesn't actually works as intended (slowing the snowballing effect without making the game unplayable), so it needs to be fixed before 0.5's release.

I mean if you want to end this particular MP game, I don't really have a voice here as it's extremely unlikely that I will ever come back to any real power in the game, but it only makes sense if we intend to actually fix the endgame problem.
Though, I believe the current game is played with the extremely nerfed costs for the Transcendance tech ?
So it shouldn't be that hard for someone to win it in not such a long time...



Daybreak's fair play : the game is a wargame, and a computer one. We all made mistakes I guess, and we paid the price for them.
In the allied game we lost the game because I mistook a fuel icon for a troop icon on a Wobbly Flux ship (they're the same color), and told o01eg to check he could defend one of his planet; he decided to go back with all his fleet because of that, and we lost a few turns before isolating Wobbly's planet, which tipped the balance in his favor by allowing him to release more Flux warships.
It's indeed bad that Oberlus loses a troop fleet through a stupid UI mistake, but asking for them to be allowed to not face the consequences is the wrong idea I believe.

Also Daybreak did not accuse Oberlus of lacking fair-play, he just quoted Oberlus' remark toward him (DB).

wobbly
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Re: Twentieth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#425 Post by wobbly »

LienRag wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:47 pm If FreeOrion's endgame always (or most of the time) comes to a boring grind, that is a fundamental flaw of the game that needs to be addressed, and probably quite quickly.
Especially if it's worse with the new Influence mechanisme, it means that it doesn't actually works as intended (slowing the snowballing effect without making the game unplayable), so it needs to be fixed before 0.5's release.
Endgame is no slower or faster than the Early game/Middle game. 1-2 turns/day is 1-2 turns/day no matter what phase of the game we are talking about.
LienRag wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:47 pm In the allied game we lost the game because I mistook a fuel icon for a troop icon on a Wobbly Flux ship (they're the same color), and told o01eg to check he could defend one of his planet; he decided to go back with all his fleet because of that, and we lost a few turns before isolating Wobbly's planet, which tipped the balance in his favor by allowing him to release more Flux warships.
I have zero faith in arguments of "We totally would of won, if only if..."

o01eg
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Re: Twentieth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#426 Post by o01eg »

LienRag wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:47 pm About the in-game chat discussion :

Stopping the game because it will take a long time to end it ?
That's utterly ridiculous !
If FreeOrion's endgame always (or most of the time) comes to a boring grind, that is a fundamental flaw of the game that needs to be addressed, and probably quite quickly.
Especially if it's worse with the new Influence mechanisme, it means that it doesn't actually works as intended (slowing the snowballing effect without making the game unplayable), so it needs to be fixed before 0.5's release.

I mean if you want to end this particular MP game, I don't really have a voice here as it's extremely unlikely that I will ever come back to any real power in the game, but it only makes sense if we intend to actually fix the endgame problem.
Though, I believe the current game is played with the extremely nerfed costs for the Transcendance tech ?
So it shouldn't be that hard for someone to win it in not such a long time...
Sounds reasonable. It's not like I'm stopping current game right away and replace it with new game. I need time to gather players, check merge issues, and so on. We could decide later if we really stop this game or play yet another week.
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Endhu
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Re: Twentieth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#427 Post by Endhu »

LienRag wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:47 pm About the in-game chat discussion :

Stopping the game because it will take a long time to end it ?
That's utterly ridiculous !
If FreeOrion's endgame always (or most of the time) comes to a boring grind, that is a fundamental flaw of the game that needs to be addressed, and probably quite quickly.
Especially if it's worse with the new Influence mechanisme, it means that it doesn't actually works as intended (slowing the snowballing effect without making the game unplayable), so it needs to be fixed before 0.5's release.

I mean if you want to end this particular MP game, I don't really have a voice here as it's extremely unlikely that I will ever come back to any real power in the game, but it only makes sense if we intend to actually fix the endgame problem.
Though, I believe the current game is played with the extremely nerfed costs for the Transcendance tech ?
So it shouldn't be that hard for someone to win it in not such a long time...
I think a bigger problem is the winning condition. Right now we have a somewhat even situation. If I play for the biggest chance of winning I have to turn against Daybreak once he starts to be too strong, and the cycle repeats with another strong player surfacing. Unless someone is good at hiding strength or manipulating people (to prevent others from uniting until it's too late), it's almost impossible to overpower the rest of the players when they inevitably unite against the biggest threat. That's why I said it would take ages, who knows how many cycles we may have to go through if everyone intends to play to win.

It's possible that if Oberlus and Wobbly have an agreement to be allied until they're the only ones left then it could be quicker should they get an advantage, dunno about that

Endhu
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Re: Twentieth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#428 Post by Endhu »

wobbly wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 3:03 pm Endgame is no slower or faster than the Early game/Middle game. 1-2 turns/day is 1-2 turns/day no matter what phase of the game we are talking about.
I believe it's about the frequency of things changing or anything significant happening, but that's subjective.

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LienRag
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Re: Twentieth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#429 Post by LienRag »

That's a general problem with multi-players wargames, actually.
But things like Experimentators or Transcendance serve to fix it.
Problem with Experimentators is that as of now they are too random : if they appear close to a player that is not in too bad shape militarily, it's nearly impossible for the other players to prevent him from winning.

If we had a Galaxy shape with a hole in it (I mean, we have it in ring-shaped galaxies), then we could have something like a rift happen in the endgame opening new worlds in the middle of it (with the Experimentators in them), so basically all players around the inner surface of the ring would have the same chances to get the Experimentators and the best player would win (as intended).

Daybreak
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Re: Twentieth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#430 Post by Daybreak »

Endhu wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:00 pm I think a bigger problem is the winning condition. Right now we have a somewhat even situation. If I play for the biggest chance of winning I have to turn against Daybreak once he starts to be too strong, and the cycle repeats with another strong player surfacing.
+1

It could go on and on and on.

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Oberlus
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Re: Twentieth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#431 Post by Oberlus »

Daybreak wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:16 pm
Endhu wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:00 pm I think a bigger problem is the winning condition. Right now we have a somewhat even situation. If I play for the biggest chance of winning I have to turn against Daybreak once he starts to be too strong, and the cycle repeats with another strong player surfacing.
It could go on and on and on.
Not in previous games, and I think this 20th game would be finished before turn 400.

Anyways, we can play fixed teams, no teams with disabled diplomacy, flexible teams with maximum number of winners...

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LienRag
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Re: Twentieth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#432 Post by LienRag »

Oberlus wrote: Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:03 pm flexible teams with maximum number of winners...
If this maximum is superior to one, you'll play it without me...

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Oberlus
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Re: Twentieth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#433 Post by Oberlus »

LienRag wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 12:39 am If this maximum is superior to one, you'll play it without me...
Fortunately, Nightsiders are relatively common...

wobbly
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Re: Twentieth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#434 Post by wobbly »

Oberlus PM'd me, he is away for a couple of days. I'll delay my turn for long enough for him to get back.

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Oberlus
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Re: Twentieth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#435 Post by Oberlus »

I'll be away from 22:00 GMT for 48h.

For me, the most turns you can play, the better.
So, if when I'm away you guys can and want to turn faster, o01eg can give delegation to wobbly if he wants it.

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