Eighteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

[wobbly]

Oberlus - I'm trying out the Fulver in single player at the moment. You said before that you regretted not taking centralization. It actually would of done nothing as they don't have 20 stability at the capital. What worked well for me was to go for architectural psychology (social slot + unlock moderation), Liberty + Moderation (both liked and both quite strong) and now you can take centralization.

[Oberlus]

Noted! Thanks.

[Ophiuchus]

Oberlus - I'm trying out the Fulver in single player at the moment. You said before that you regretted not taking centralization.

there are some ways to make centralisation work (you need some extra stability). i tried going the tech route, so bureaucracy was anyway necessary to get technocracy and gave stability. for some turns i went to defense on the home planet to get the necessary stability boost for centralisation (coming from industry that gave fine RP) - but probably not necessary, bureaucracy should have sufficed.

what you definitely want is liberty. and the military command. exploration is free. and getting extra fuel is not a hard research hit and also a nice stability boost, besides giving Fulver crazy 14 fuel on organic hull.

and as soon as you have lighthouses... well with liberty you get +8 stability locally, so gas giant generators are really no problem.

[LienRag]

As far as hiding the planets goes thats actually hard to do. I spotted the edge colony by the white star and the capital has a visible shipyard on it.

Stealth strategy is dead with Active Scanning, and was already quite broken against human players before.
We had some discussion about trying it in our team, but there was no way to keep ahead of you if you decided to invest in detection, and it would have taken all the sparse Laenfa research.

I like Active Scanning as it works quite differently from any other mechanism, but it breaks the balance.

[Ophiuchus]

As far as hiding the planets goes thats actually hard to do. I spotted the edge colony by the white star and the capital has a visible shipyard on it.

Stealth strategy is dead with Active Scanning, and was already quite broken against human players before.
We had some discussion about trying it in our team, but there was no way to keep ahead of you if you decided to invest in detection, and it would have taken all the sparse Laenfa research.

I like Active Scanning as it works quite differently from any other mechanism, but it breaks the balance.

agreed that stealth needs rebalancing. anyway it would have bought some more turns of non-invadebility (we did not press on having the troops available in the right turn, because we just needed the proof it would have worked). Laenfa means still two steps of stealth so I imagine getting the first "cheap" stealth tech is still worth it (and it could have been a bit useful for defense as well - asteroid hulls or flux core hulls with dampeners). Oberlus would have needed on top of active scanning border checks (which suck), neutron scanner (expensive RP) or lighthouses to crack the laenfa open (Oberlus with Fulver should have prioritized that road).
it is just a guess that it would have helped; you know better about RP... situation of the silent ones empire.

[Oberlus]

We need a policy that can be adopted not much later than Active Scanning and that counter its effect to get back to 0.4.10 balance.
There's a suggestion for economic policy "No surface activity", unlocked by Subterranean Habitation, to increase planet stealth and reduce target population and supply.
And one for military policy that reduces speed of ships and increase their stealth, when the fleet is set to hidden.

[wobbly]

Potentially something to stealth a shipyard is also needed.

An issue that came up with fulver precog. The out of sight planet had the name and font style of a capital. (the abadonni capital, didn't notice if the laenfa had this)

[Ophiuchus]

An issue that came up with fulver precog. The out of sight planet had the name and font style of a capital. (the abadonni capital, didn't notice if the laenfa had this)

can you please open an issue on githup for that?

[LienRag]

Potentially something to stealth a shipyard is also needed.

An issue that came up with fulver precog. The out of sight planet had the name and font style of a capital. (the abadonni capital, didn't notice if the laenfa had this)

Nicely spotted.

For the shipyard, I'm not certain that it's best to stealth it : if we knew that it was indicating the Capital, we probably would have built one (it's a cheap building) on the other Planet in order to confuse you.

The drydock is a stronger indication of a Capitol imho, but hiding an orbital building is not really coherent with the fluff...

(Also, I thought to tell The Silent One to build the Asteroid Processor at Zwicky in order to not let you spot it only three turns after he started building it at Bacabs and we didn't have enough production to build two)

We need a policy that can be adopted not much later than Active Scanning and that counter its effect to get back to 0.4.10 balance.
There's a suggestion for economic policy "No surface activity", unlocked by Subterranean Habitation, to increase planet stealth and reduce target population and supply.
And one for military policy that reduces speed of ships and increase their stealth, when the fleet is set to hidden.

We need something to bring back balance indeed and a Policy is, also indeed, an option to be considered.
It would be so much better to find ways to have it cleverly bring balance rather than being too symmetrical from Active Scanner...

Your Policy for hidden slow ships is one aspect of it, "No surface activity" is interesting also, but I feel that we haven't found the right way yet.
Probably should be a combination of factors rather than just a Policy, but since Policies are scarce especially at the start of the game, it can't really be a combination of Policies lest it punishes the defending player way too much.

As I wrote on the corresponding topic, your idea of detaching Stealth techs from Detection can help bring a better balance.

Of course my Situational Stealth propositions are part of the solution too, but what I proposed for Planets come very late in the game.

Since the game is very slow now, one gets to max Continuous Scanning quickly enough than the progressive gain usually doesn't really matter, so maybe its rate should be halved ? That way the timing of getting it would be more important, and that would leave more time to the opponent to prepare against it/slip Symbiotic ships while they are still useful.

[Geoff the Medio]

I'm getting timouts trying to connect to the server

Code: Select all

00:07:39.504079 {0x000088f8} [debug] network : ClientNetworking.cpp:342 : Attempt to connect to server at one of these addresses:
00:07:39.504079 {0x000088f8} [debug] network : ClientNetworking.cpp:344 :   tcp::resolver::iterator host_name: freeorion-lt.dedyn.io  address: 2604:2dc0:200:1549:c30c:a081:945e:1  port: 12346
00:07:39.504079 {0x000088f8} [debug] network : ClientNetworking.cpp:344 :   tcp::resolver::iterator host_name: freeorion-lt.dedyn.io  address: 51.81.182.97  port: 12346
00:07:51.610784 {0x000088f8} [error] network : ClientNetworking.cpp:403 : Timed out (12106 ms.) attempting to connect to server.
00:07:51.610784 {0x000088f8} [debug] network : ClientNetworking.cpp:411 : ConnectToServer() : failed to connect to server.

[Oberlus]

I'm getting timouts trying to connect to the server

18th game is over and I think there is no game running in the server right now.

[wobbly]

Anyone grab the game graphs? I'd like to see how mine and Ophi's RP/PP compared to the other empires. I suspect it will say something about why team LOT got smashed.

[LienRag]

After our first defeat at Wlison I estimated that you would probably need 3 to 4 turns to build each new Wungun and made my calculations of our chances of survival based on that.
So yes, since apparently your Volp-Uglush Colony allowed you have double the production I estimated, it could explain why we had no real chance once we failed our attack...