Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

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Oberlus
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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#376 Post by Oberlus »

LienRag wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:15 pm Since infinite growth is what the Influence mechanism was supposed to abolish, the easier way of allowing it would be removing the Influence mechanism...
No, objective it to slow down growth, make it harder so that smaller empires have more chances and so that expansion is more challenging on itself (to optimize output you can't just colonize everywhere).

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#377 Post by Geoff the Medio »

I added some policies that will extract benefit from having unowned populated planets near or in systems with populated planets, hopefully making it possible to have a large empire without actually directly controlling all the planets in it.

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LienRag
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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#378 Post by LienRag »

Geoff the Medio wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:04 pm I added some policies that will extract benefit from having unowned populated planets near or in systems with populated planets, hopefully making it possible to have a large empire without actually directly controlling all the planets in it.
Interesting, we'll see how it fares.

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drkosy
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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#379 Post by drkosy »

As Danys homeworld is under siege all planets lost connection to the homeworld. That actually cost +1IP per colony and kills an empire unable to get confederation. I think that's a bit tough. Especally for early attacks where no regional administration is set up.
Actually you didn't even have to invade the homeworld, the empire is screwed up anyway. As far as I know, at the moment you can only rebuild the palace, witch means you can't replace it, if your homeworld isn't invaded...
Want some fresh experience? Try Kosymod

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LienRag
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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#380 Post by LienRag »

drkosy wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:50 pm As Danys homeworld is under siege all planets lost connection to the homeworld. That actually cost +1IP per colony and kills an empire unable to get confederation. I think that's a bit tough. Especally for early attacks where no regional administration is set up.
Actually you didn't even have to invade the homeworld, the empire is screwed up anyway.
The ability to hit hard with a clever attack is a good thing and adds strategy to the game.
The fact that an Empire would be incapable of reacting to such an attack (by adopting Confederation or another Policy) is indeed more problematic.

It's always possible to consider that a wise Emperor would stockpile enough Influence to be able to change Policy when needed, but that doesn't work in the current game where Influence costs for Policies are not really predictable and where Influence is so scarce mid-game that it's not realistic to ask Empires to be stockpiling it.

Obviously if we make changing Policies too easily it removes the strategic value of hitting the enemy center, which is not a good thing...

I never played Confederation, so maybe if we have :
- changing Policies without having anticipated it is still costly
but :
- with the right planning it's possible without too much cost
then we'll have the right options for a strategic game ?

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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#381 Post by Oberlus »

LienRag wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:54 pm It's always possible to consider that a wise Emperor would stockpile enough Influence to be able to change Policy when needed, but that doesn't work in the current game where Influence costs for Policies are not really predictable and where Influence is so scarce mid-game that it's not realistic to ask Empires to be stockpiling it.
I have some 650 IP in my stockpile...

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LienRag
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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#382 Post by LienRag »

Oberlus wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:59 am Nascent AI doesn't unlock any policy.
Indeed.
So Geoff, please put Artificial Minds back.

I approve of what you want to do with Research (the general line of thought, making it work differently) but as I already wrote before, I believe that none of the current implementations really work, so I'd think wise to not remove the current mechanisms as long as the new ones are not a fitting replacement.

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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#383 Post by wobbly »

It was removed 20/12/20 at the same time as DTC was changed and algorithmic elegance's bonus was moved to a policy if you are interested. Anyway I don't miss it, that tech was so boring that I hadn't even noticed it was gone. On the other hand I wouldn't be bothered if it came back either.

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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#384 Post by LienRag »

I tried to play my turn and the game crashed, after that it asked me an OTP password and now it leaves me in the lobby where I get access to the chat but no other player but me are in the list ?
(which is a list of one per consequence)

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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#385 Post by Oberlus »

LienRag wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:58 pm I tried to play my turn and the game crashed, after that it asked me an OTP password and now it leaves me in the lobby where I get access to the chat but no other player but me are in the list ?
(which is a list of one per consequence)
I was playing my turn peacefully, thinking of mass genocide and other little pleasures, then you got in and crashed the server. Shame on you (/clown mode off).

Still not working.

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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#386 Post by Oberlus »

o01eg, are these the settings (notice the seed!) of current game?
16gamesettings.png
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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#387 Post by Geoff the Medio »

LienRag wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:51 am
Geoff the Medio wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:29 am Artificial Minds was an extra tech after Nascent Artificial Intelligence, and the effects were moved to a policy unlocked by the latter
All I can see is Algorithmic Research, unlocked by Algorithmic Elegance, and which indeed replaces the effects of the tech (a bad idea imho, not in the general principle, but in the fact that it comes too early in the tech tree : at that stage a free bonus would be more rewarding).
The policy unlock can be moved later in the tree, if appropriate. I would have thought that the need to also adopt a policy (and have a slot to do that with) would be similar to it being later in the tree in terms of ease of getting the bonus in play.
Artificial Minds was the second part of NAI when Oberlus split it in two.
It brought a second flat +1 bonus when focused on Research.
I'd still rather avoid having many techs like that, and rather have stuff like discussed here: https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/ ... t-46046548

I'm not sure whether the current complaints are just due to a lack of other stuff to sufficiently generate research at a rate similar to before, or rather due to resistance to having to do more to get the bonus when players were used to getting them just for researching a tech.

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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#388 Post by o01eg »

Oberlus wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:53 pm o01eg, are these the settings (notice the seed!) of current game?
16gamesettings.png
Yep, looks like some leaks not fixed yet.

I missed space usage. I'll clean it and restart the server soon.
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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#389 Post by Oberlus »

Geoff the Medio wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:15 pm I'm not sure whether the current complaints are just due to a lack of other stuff to sufficiently generate research at a rate similar to before, or rather due to resistance to having to do more to get the bonus when players were used to getting them just for researching a tech.
I like having to adopt policies to get bonuses.
The removed tech was a way to have more flat RP bonuses (but focused in that case) for bad research species, and master currently has enough flat RPs.
I might not like fluff (e.g. environmentalism is the most powerful source of research, makes no sense to me, but not an issue for this state of development). Also I find most of the policies are quite not sci-fi related (most would work the same for this game as for Age of Empires/Civilization/etc.), and I really miss sci-fi themed stuff, but again not a problem for me at this state of development (and anyone can contribute to that, starting with me).
Balance is what needs to be worked out for next release.

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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#390 Post by o01eg »

The server restarted.
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