Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

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Oberlus
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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#271 Post by Oberlus »

wobbly wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:30 pm
drkosy wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:24 pm I don't see any point in playing further. Don't know what it will show. That a massive bunch of high end titans can kill everyone? I don't need to test that...
Perhaps you can gift the remains of your empire to LR and L29Ah?
Or at least ally to people before conceeding, so that the AI that takes ownership of your empire is not at war with them.

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LienRag
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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#272 Post by LienRag »

danyspin97 wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:58 pm I volunteer to ally with oberlus (or rather, continue our alliance). It would really be interesting to have everyone against us, as I don't have any problem with species and planets.
Well, since you denying him Supply long enough for us to apply his suggestions and bring our Research to par is probably the only way for us to stand a chance (and also the fact that you're the only one that has had some research), I'm not sure that you're the one that could stay allied with Oberlus (if there is to be one).

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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#273 Post by Oberlus »

LienRag wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:54 pm Well, since you denying him Supply long enough for us to apply his suggestions and bring our Research to par is probably the only way for us to stand a chance (and also the fact that you're the only one that has had some research), I'm not sure that you're the one that could stay allied with Oberlus (if there is to be one).
You've got like 80 turns to apply my suggestions. And if you apply my suggestions while allied against me, it won't be any fun I think (5-6 empires pumping out titans against 1-2 empires doing the same).
If this is about you having a chance to win this game (rather than playtest stuff), maybe I could concede.

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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#274 Post by Oberlus »

LR, keep in mind that GGs (and asteroids) doesn't get anything from environmentalism. Actually that works well in multispecies empires: you can use those as PP powerhouses free of the -5 PP.

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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#275 Post by wobbly »

I'm not convinced that 80 turns where noone can reach you and 80 turns with a fleet of titans parked on your doorstep are the same thing but looks like we are playing on, so see how it goes.

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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#276 Post by Oberlus »

Agree. The advantage will be on my side for a while indeed.

Should we agree on some time until I release the Titan?

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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#277 Post by wobbly »

Oberlus wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:31 pm Agree. The advantage will be on my side for a while indeed.

Should we agree on some time until I release the Titan?
Yeah lets do that. Not sure what a good time frame is. What do others think?

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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#278 Post by LienRag »

Oberlus wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:31 pm Agree. The advantage will be on my side for a while indeed.

Should we agree on some time until I release the Titan?
All this doesn't make any sense to me.
Production-wise, we can probably match yours if we join forces (including Danyspin, I mean).
Research-wise, the gap is unbridgeable until we all switch to Environmentalism as you suggest (since we can pool production but not really pool research - we could specialize a little bit I guess but that's all).
But if we switch to Environmentalism we get nearly no production (I didn't have time to go through the FOCS code to get what you mean by "GG are not impacted by environmentalism") which means that during the 80 turns needed to bridge the technological gap you can pump Titans or whatever and face a nearly nonexistent army of ours (but quickly growing) at the end of it.

What would be the fun in that ?

I sincerely believe that it'll be more interesting to dogpile on you (danyspin included) and see how, basically, a pride of lion cubs can take down (or not) an elephant. So, I'd say, start stomping ! Our teeth and claws are small but they will grow.

For balance-testing, it would also show how much technological advantage fares against matched (or maybe superior) production and superior influence.

You certainly have won the game and can be legitimately proud of it (even if you exploited a bug, it was your exploration of the different facets of the game that made you aware of the bug and able to use it to your advantage while none of us did). You also beat me clearly; I officially concede (and if you want me to do it in-game, tell me so; it sorts of defeats the purpose of dogpiling though).

Now we can basically start a new game (same universe, different rules : dogpile !), which you may lose or win, but to which indeed you may not be starting with as big an advantage as one might think. But if danyspin stays allied to you the advantage you both have is enormous.

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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#279 Post by Oberlus »

LienRag wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:42 am All this doesn't make any sense to me.
What doesn't make any sense to you? Asking what you prefer?
BTW, I asked because wobbly asked my in private.

Anyways.

If it's all vs me, I certainly should start stomping now to have possibilities. But I can only attack Dani, he is my only neighbor. I will destroy him while the rest of you grow and develop without much option to help him. That will be less interesting and fun for Dani than for anyone else. I won't do that unless you can convince Dani of joining you. I think you could do it if you do a sincere and great effort to protect him.

I don't know how big are L29's forces, but yours and wobbly are considerable. I have 5 Titans on the board, with less than 2 fuel and bad point-defense. I didn't attack your stack because I feared to loss one or two titans (20%-40% or my current forces) to your bombers. I also have 6 other early-game warships, irrelevant. Dani is also relatively weak, any of LR or wobbly could single-handedly conquer half his empire if having enough troops. With my scarce ships I cannot control all Dani's borders that have tens of doors. I could control my own borders (three chokepoints).

If your 5 empires exchange species you'll have Chato, Etty, Sly, Replicon, Cray, Laenfa, Tae Ghirus, Phinnert, dunno what else. You'll have access to Ocean, Swamp, Toxic, Radiated, Barren and Desert as good environments (to make Gaia while keeping Environmentalism), the rest as adequate, plus GGs and belts. And you'll have 5 empires to hold planets with low influence upkeep. I cannot have more than about 40-60 planets before having to set to influence most of my planets, while you all will have at least 20 planets per empire set to industry.

If you ask me to not attack for some time, I'll be able to grow my army while you grow your five empires and develop your techs. If you ask me to attack now, I shall hurry getting more warships and screw your supply lines before you can get good tech and policies.

I think, but I don't really know, it would be better 5vs2 and you asking for some cease-fire time. 20 turns? 80 turns? I don't know (BTW, I never said anything about 80 turns, that was wobbly).

You didn't trust my suggestions early in the game and I became this monster (thanks also to having Dani as my neighbor and wobbly giving me Replicon and Sly in exchange of Etty and Laenfa, for me to focus on peaceful development). You can do it again now (not trust my recommendations). In any case, you five (or six) get to choose, you don't need to convince me of anything, I'm up for whatever you decide.

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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#280 Post by LienRag »

Oh, from your earlier discussions, I thought that you had at least three fleets of three titans (not counting reinforcements).

Well, I don't know either, then.

Danyspin has more than 80 ships if I'm not mistaken ? None of them can fight ?

If you have no real fleet it probably would be more fun to start the war now I guess ?

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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#281 Post by Oberlus »

LienRag wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:12 am Well, I don't know either, then.
No. Then you do know because I just told you.

Danyspin has more than 80 ships if I'm not mistaken ? None of them can fight ?
Chaff. Empty cheap hulls.

If you have no real fleet it probably would be more fun to start the war now I guess ?
Don't ask me, ask your partners.

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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#282 Post by LienRag »

Oberlus wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:26 am I don't know (BTW, I never said anything about 80 turns, that was wobbly).
Oberlus wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:11 pm You've got like 80 turns to apply my suggestions.
I guess both Wobbly and I interpreted your phrase as you being 80 turns away from being able to attack us with some effectiveness (which was strange indeed), which also meant that we would get 80 turns to apply your suggestions (starting now).
Oberlus wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:19 am
LienRag wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:12 am Well, I don't know either, then.
No. Then you do know because I just told you.
Indeed, I know now that you don't know because you told me just now that you don't know.

I still have no definitive idea of what would be the best/more interesting/more challenging way of continuing the game, though. 3/4 v2 (drkosy wrote he's out) ? 4/5 vs 1 ? With a truce or not ? How long should the truce last ?

And you are right, other people's input would be appreciated.

L29Ah didn't weigh in so far if I'm not mistaken ?

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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#283 Post by Oberlus »

LienRag wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:52 am I guess both Wobbly and I interpreted your phrase as you being 80 turns away from being able to attack us with some effectiveness (which was strange indeed), which also meant that we would get 80 turns to apply your suggestions (starting now).
I meant that the suggestions were 80 turns old, in the sense that I made them 80 turns ago, when I started applying them and you also could (if circumstances allowed it) apply them since then. In other words, I was complaining that we all had the same rules, and that I did not save for myself everything I found out but shared it publicly for others to do the same, and that it is certainly not my fault that other chose to do otherwise and now complain about how unfair it is that there is a lack of documentation or whatever. But that isn't important now, IMO.

3/4 v2 (drkosy wrote he's out) ? 4/5 vs 1?
We are seven players. With drkosy out (I hope he reconsider it) it would be 4v2 or 5v1, never 3v2 or 4v1.
But if drkosy is out, I hope he first ally all of you for easy conquest from your part.


You should contact L29Ah via xmpp or game chat, PM could also work but he can take his time to read it.

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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#284 Post by o01eg »

L29Ah lost motivation to beta-test the game and delegated his empire to me. It happened nearly before we decided to go against Oberlus so I already set his empire to independence to see how it will work.
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Re: Sixteen game on the multiplayer slow game server

#285 Post by Oberlus »

Then I guess we should do it all vs me.

I propose the following:

- I retire all my forces to my space.
- I declare war on Dani.
- You all ally and move your forces to Dani space to help him not go down quickly.
- I stay idle (but growing my army) until you make your first attack to my space (no need to warn me before hand, I'll see you coming). So you got to decide what is better for you, wait and grow or blitzkrieg.

If I can conquer all of your capitals I will celebrate with an ice-cold beer under an umbrella in Costa Blanca.

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