New Multiplayer Game-Mode

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drkosy
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New Multiplayer Game-Mode

#1 Post by drkosy »

As the galaxy of the recent multiplayer game started very peaceful I thought about a new game-mode for multiplayer. Something like a zombie-survival game: All players are allied and diplomatics are disabled. Together all fight the "united zoo-creation company", a species that creates space monsters in batches. At around turn 20 they start with tier1 (drones, floaters), turn 40 they go for tier2 (small kraken etc.), turn 80 comes tier3 (normal kraken, space dragon etc.) that goes to tier4 (big kraken etc.) at turn 120 and to tier5 (experimentor inventar) on turn 150.
Maybe the spawning rate could be coupled with the number of players or for each player there exists on colony of that zoo-species.

Another idea could be an asynchronous play mode. One big player has production multiplied by the number of players and fights against all other empires. It has bad supply and maybe fuel reduced (like scylor) that they can't reach the players quickly.

I would love to play that sort of games but don't know how much work it would be to implement that. I think it should be possible to use some of the experimentor-code for that.

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Oberlus
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Re: New Multiplayer Game-Mode

#2 Post by Oberlus »

survival mode
I like this idea, quite a lot actually. With or without the forced alliance, the idea is that there is constant and increasing pressure from something else than the other players, and all players get a victory if they survive until some galactic achievement is accomplished (like conquering the last experimentor's outpost). In the meantime, players can fully cooperate or try to get advantage by predating on other players. I expect cooperation to be the most efficient way to reach victory over the monsters, but I think it should be allowed to make stupid or selfish decisions.

One big player has production multiplied by the number of players and fights against all other empires.
This one seems also interesting but I'm not sure I really like it. But it should work, for sure.
When playing multiplayer, sometimes one player becomes ostensibly stronger than the rest, and alliances rearrange accordingly, usually to make factions more comparable, with few biggest empires cooperating against many smaller empires (small empires see bigger ones as a threat: once there are no other enemies, the big fish eats the small one). So this mode is like a special instance of the general case, where from start we get a strong empire against many weak ones.
What I don't know if it will work is how easy will it be to get players for such games. If many people wants to be the Big one and not one among the small... But I think it won't hurt to implement such mode. Hmmm... well, the big one could be the chosen at random.

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swaq
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Re: New Multiplayer Game-Mode

#3 Post by swaq »

I would be interested in playing a co-operative style game like this.

o01eg
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Re: New Multiplayer Game-Mode

#4 Post by o01eg »

drkosy wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:18 pm As the galaxy of the recent multiplayer game started very peaceful I thought about a new game-mode for multiplayer. Something like a zombie-survival game: All players are allied and diplomatics are disabled. Together all fight the "united zoo-creation company", a species that creates space monsters in batches. At around turn 20 they start with tier1 (drones, floaters), turn 40 they go for tier2 (small kraken etc.), turn 80 comes tier3 (normal kraken, space dragon etc.) that goes to tier4 (big kraken etc.) at turn 120 and to tier5 (experimentor inventar) on turn 150.
Maybe the spawning rate could be coupled with the number of players or for each player there exists on colony of that zoo-species.
Survival game is even available. Set monsters to max, enable experimenters, and set all player into single team. Not sure about victory condition although. War victory will be achieved by the latest alive empire. Tech victory is for single player who researched Singularity. And Experimenters victory for single player who could capture experimenters planet.
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Oberlus
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Re: New Multiplayer Game-Mode

#5 Post by Oberlus »

o01eg wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:41 pm Survival game is even available. Set monsters to max, enable experimenters, and set all player into single team.
It needs some tailoring. A few players well coordinated will be able to clear out the galaxy of monsters and unowned nests in maybe 100 turns, and then nothing to do until turn 200 or 250. It probably should start spawning monsters around turn 50 or 100. It also should be more than one Experimentor outpost. And they should spawn less and/or weaker monsters at start.

Difficulty should be configurable (I guess number of Exp. outposts and period of monster spawn), taken from the AI difficulty setting.

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: New Multiplayer Game-Mode

#6 Post by Geoff the Medio »

Oberlus wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:53 pmIt probably should start spawning monsters around turn 50 or 100. It also should be more than one Experimentor outpost. And they should spawn less and/or weaker monsters at start.
To have multiple experimentor locations in some games but not others, there would need to be a couple different MonsterFleet definitions that are allowed / disallowed depending on rule settings or similar, since the spawn rate and limit aren't ValueRefs so can't be scripted to be dependent on anything.
Difficulty should be configurable (I guess number of Exp. outposts and period of monster spawn), taken from the AI difficulty setting.
I would disagree, if there weren't already a bunch of experimentor effects that depend on the max AI aggression setting. Should be separate rules, I think, though.

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Oberlus
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Re: New Multiplayer Game-Mode

#7 Post by Oberlus »

Geoff the Medio wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:30 am
taken from the AI difficulty setting.
Should be separate rules, I think, though.
Oh, you're right. For games with AIs in the team you should be able to set different difficulties (e.g. maniacal AIs with medium difficulty survival).
So a checkbox in galaxy settings for the survival mode ON/OFF and a drop-down menu to select survival mode difficulty. Or just one survival mode drop-down menu to select between off, begginer (easy difficulty with half the exp. outposts), easy, medium, etc.

When we balance the dificulty for the maniacal survival mode, should we assume that the players won't fight against each other (so make it harder, cooperation is a must) or that players can compete among them (make it easier)?
Maybe allow some form of non-aggressive competition, like getting points for killing monsters and invading outposts but keeping all players in peace so thay can't attack or block each other.

o01eg
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Re: New Multiplayer Game-Mode

#8 Post by o01eg »

Oberlus wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:53 pm
o01eg wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:41 pm Survival game is even available. Set monsters to max, enable experimenters, and set all player into single team.
It needs some tailoring. A few players well coordinated will be able to clear out the galaxy of monsters and unowned nests in maybe 100 turns, and then nothing to do until turn 200 or 250. It probably should start spawning monsters around turn 50 or 100. It also should be more than one Experimentor outpost. And they should spawn less and/or weaker monsters at start.

Difficulty should be configurable (I guess number of Exp. outposts and period of monster spawn), taken from the AI difficulty setting.
I'm agree but I'd like to test it on 0.4.10.1 before trying to fix balance in new version. We can make tech and production costs bigger so it will be harder to clear out the galaxy.
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LienRag
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Re: New Multiplayer Game-Mode

#9 Post by LienRag »

I played one game to test some of my FOCS files, and as usual Monster setting was to "Random".
It was after Oberlus changed the Monster frequency and the random number generator apparently gave me "high frequency" (also, no natives), the game was a real challenge indeed. Very little interaction with other (AI) players, but preventing the monsters from destroying all my colonies was a hard task !
Of course it depends on the metabolism, Phototropic or Self-Sustaining would have had a lot less trouble than I had, and of course I made mistakes that experienced players probably wouldn't have made, but still it was a quite difficult game and a quite interesting one.
Wouldn't do another one like that though, it was quite exhausting.

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drkosy
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Re: New Multiplayer Game-Mode

#10 Post by drkosy »

I would be interested in playing a co-operative style game like this.
I am glad to hear that and as I see there is great response to that suggestion :)
Survival game is even available. Set monsters to max, enable experimenters, and set all player into single team.
As Obelus said, allied team players could beat the monsters and settle the nests quickly. I once had big problems with monsters but till they don't stay long in a system, I just send out some outpost ships and captured their nests. The can't kill outposts but the nest is nevertheless under your control. So that might be challenging for some time but not to much.
but still it was a quite difficult game and a quite interesting one.
That is true if you fight alone, but we discuss an multiplayer alliance game. So you can strike combined with others, which makes it more easy to do.
When we balance the dificulty for the maniacal survival mode, should we assume that the players won't fight against each other (so make it harder, cooperation is a must) or that players can compete among them (make it easier)?
Maybe allow some form of non-aggressive competition, like getting points for killing monsters and invading outposts but keeping all players in peace so thay can't attack or block each other.
My suggestion was to force an alliance with all human players which can't be broken. I think there could be enough possible ways to compete with others (try to build more colonies, kill more monsters etc.) But my intention is a game that can only be won if all players cooperate but I am fine with other suggestions.
To have multiple experimentor locations in some games but not others, there would need to be a couple different MonsterFleet definitions that are allowed / disallowed depending on rule settings or similar, since the spawn rate and limit aren't ValueRefs so can't be scripted to be dependent on anything.
I didn't call it experimentors because they are squeezing out there devastating inventar as they start their activity but in principle you could go for their outposts, create one per human player and let them go for small monsters first. Actually that is great because their outposts are hard to get, but if you catch one, it gives you a great species. On the other hand I love that "unified zoo creation company" (it's a bit crazy and I love things that are a bit crazy) :wink:

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Oberlus
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Re: New Multiplayer Game-Mode

#11 Post by Oberlus »

Instead of Experimentor Outposts or Unified Zoo Creation Company branch offices (this last one seems quite... not sci-fi, maybe even Monsters S.A., not my cup of tea :lol:) we could have Spatio-Temporal Tears, Void Sprinkles, or something like that, implying a nexus with another dimension and monsters coming out of it. Kinda Stranger Things in the Space.
There could be different types, with different spawned monsters, difficulty and turn of activation. Experimentor Outpost is our template.

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: New Multiplayer Game-Mode

#12 Post by Geoff the Medio »

So you want to play multiplayer galactic Tower Defense?

If the players were in fixed teams with some monster spawners in the middle, and a suitably constructed galaxy, you could also play a galactic Multiplayer Online Battle Arena (Defense of the Ancients / League of Legends).

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Re: New Multiplayer Game-Mode

#13 Post by Oberlus »

Geoff the Medio wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:11 am So you want to play multiplayer galactic Tower Defense?
Yeah, xD
Also tug of war versus AI: the monster team (AI) keeps sending increasingly powerful monsters to defender's planets, and defenders keep sending increasingly stronger fleets to eradicate monster nests/portals/outposts... Defenders need to use every FO mechanic to beat the game, full 4X.
Geoff the Medio wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:11 am If the players were in fixed teams with some monster spawners in the middle, and a suitably constructed galaxy, you could also play a galactic Multiplayer Online Battle Arena (Defense of the Ancients / League of Legends).
Noice.
And variants of that:

- Monsters 1 <--attacks--> Team 1 <--attacks--> Team 2 <--atacks--> Monsters 2
The team that first eradicates its monsters or the last standing team wins. Teams can focus on defending from their monsters and conquering the other team, or defending against the other team and conqeuring their monsters.
A 2-arm spiral galaxy without starlanes connecting arm tips with center or other arms would be nice for this one. 3 arm for 3 teams battle, etc.

- Monsters A <--attacks--> Team 1 <--attacks--> Monsters B <--attacks--> Team 2 <--atacks--> Monsters A
The team that first conquers certain monster ubernest (a la Exp. Outpost) wins. There would be one of those ubernests for each monster "team".
Ring galaxy for this one. As many teams as wanted.

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drkosy
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Re: New Multiplayer Game-Mode

#14 Post by drkosy »

we could have Spatio-Temporal Tears, Void Sprinkles, or something like that,
Well that's all right for me :) I would even play such a game if there is no "united zoo company" included in it. Maybe there could even come hostile battle ships out of that sprinkles. Spatio fluxes can even send ships into other galaxies...
So you want to play multiplayer galactic Tower Defense?
Me too :)
Maybe it should be possible to choose the number of teams. With one team all player form one alliance. With two, there are two fixed teams (either fixed before universe generation - if possible - or discussed in the forum an than fixed by diplomacy). I don't know what would be more easy to work out.

Without having two game modes there will be two different game-styles. All together against the bad sprinkles or catch the sprinkle to kill the other team. There shouldn't be any "catch 3 sprinkles and you win" but more: conquer all of them. If you conquer one that should give you big advantage so the team that owns more sprinkles are the one in advantage. That brings in some thrill. Something like "The other team could reach the last sprinkle and will win the game so we put everything against them". Stealthy ships could be important there...
I think that kind of tower defense could really be fun.

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Re: New Multiplayer Game-Mode

#15 Post by ThinkSome »

I'd play this.

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