Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

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o01eg
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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#121 Post by o01eg »

Oberlus wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:38 am Getting back to Bobit: two missed turns, soon a third.

Whoever is close to his empire in this game, have you engaged in combat? is the empire suffering attacks while the player is MIA? If not, we can wait a bit more without pausing game, I guess, until Bobit shows up or we do something about it. Otherwise (if Bobit is under attack) I think we should pause game and decide what to do with Bobit's empire. It won't be nice any way, because it will mean cheap advantage for Bobit's neighbors, but at least we won't be playing 1 turn a day.
No yet, but I was expecting his attack on me.
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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#122 Post by Geoff the Medio »

Oberlus wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:38 amWhoever is close to [Bobit's] empire in this game, have you engaged in combat? is the empire suffering attacks while the player is MIA?
Should I comment as an observer?

Regardles of that, can all the players see the diplomatic status between other players? Whether an empire is at war or not might give an indication of whether battles might be happening.

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LienRag
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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#123 Post by LienRag »

Geoff the Medio wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:03 pm Regardles of that, can all the players see the diplomatic status between other players? Whether an empire is at war or not might give an indication of whether battles might be happening.
I think we do, yes.
I saw the war between drkosy and oo1g at the beginning of the game, when obviously I had no contact with either of them.

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Oberlus
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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#124 Post by Oberlus »

Geoff the Medio wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:03 pm Regardles of that, can all the players see the diplomatic status between other players? Whether an empire is at war or not might give an indication of whether battles might be happening.
Doh! I was so immersed in my own battles that I didn't bother to check that (yes, every player can see diplomatic status between any pair of empires).

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LienRag
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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#125 Post by LienRag »

Not related to the Bobit situation, but we need I think one diplomatic action that share supply but not information (view).
This is especially important in a one-winner-only game with diplomacy, where every alliance is supposed to shatter one day.
Yes sharing supply means that the ally can send scouts anywhere in the Empire, but it can be dealt diplomatically as scouts are seen (if not stealthed, of course).

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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#126 Post by drkosy »

- If a player asks for it in advance, game can be paused (maximum time?).
- If a player has problems to connect to the server (maybe OTPs not arriving) and misses a turn, game can rewind a single turn.
- If a player has IRL problems, can't connect and can't/won't tell us in advance, after two (three? five?) missed turns the player's empire concedes (server manager --o01eg-- does it, or something is implemented in the server to make it automatic).
I see two cases:
1.) The player tell us (in advance or not) that there are problems occuring (unplanned business trip, excavator scraped phone cable down the street), than we can find a solution for shure. Maybe just pause the game, but at least it could be discussed. The forum could be reached by mobile devices and mobile data so even with scrapped internet it should be possible to sent one post here.

2.) The player doesn't show up somewhere and we don't know what happened. After e.g. 5 missed turns I suggest to first search for a new player and if we don't find one, concede after 3 more turns.

That is exactly what I supose to do with bobit, search for a new player. If he returns suddenly, he may have his empire back. If we don't find a new player he should forced to concede. Of cause that are only my personal thoughts.

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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#127 Post by Oberlus »

LienRag wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:34 pmwe need I think one diplomatic action that share supply but not information (view).
This is especially important in a one-winner-only game with diplomacy, where every alliance is supposed to shatter one day.
Yes sharing supply means that the ally can send scouts anywhere in the Empire, but it can be dealt diplomatically as scouts are seen (if not stealthed, of course).
As you point out, not sharing vision is not much of a solution to a less open alliance if the others can freely wander your space.
But, IIRC, there is some new fleet order in master that allows blockade without triggering combat. Your suggestion makes sense there.

IMO, best way would be to have a policy to share supply with peaceful or allied empires, the same that there is a policy to share repair with allied empires.

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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#128 Post by Oberlus »

drkosy wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:56 pm I see two cases:
1.) The player tell us (in advance or not) that there are problems occuring (unplanned business trip, excavator scraped phone cable down the street), than we can find a solution for shure. Maybe just pause the game, but at least it could be discussed. The forum could be reached by mobile devices and mobile data so even with scrapped internet it should be possible to sent one post here.

2.) The player doesn't show up somewhere and we don't know what happened. After e.g. 5 missed turns I suggest to first search for a new player and if we don't find one, concede after 3 more turns.
Simple and functional.

Number of missed turns without player communication before searching substitute player or forcing concede could be agreed upon game start.

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#129 Post by Geoff the Medio »

Oberlus wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:16 pmAs you point out, not sharing vision is not much of a solution to a less open alliance if the others can freely wander your space.
An option might be to make Open Borders a separate diplomatic level than Peace or Alliance. I have pondered adding a Shared Supply diplomatic level as well, which would let empires merge their supply networks without sharing vision. I suppose it would be arranged

War .. Peace with Closed Borders .. Open Borders with Shared Supply .. Full Alliance with Shared Vision

Peace with Closed Bordres with prevent ships from moving into your territory. At war, they wouldn't care about your borders and would just be stopped by fleet blockade mechanics as now. At higher diplo levels, you'd explicitly permit passage through your space. How this would work with stealth is unclear, though.

I'm also unsure whether it makes much sense to split Open Borders and Shared Supply. If you had open bordered without shared supply, you could get stuck in the other empire's space without a way to refuel. Shared Supply without Open Borders might make some sense, in that you could allow trade through your space but not military transit... Perhaps some gameplay mechanisms involving taxation of trade routes could be arranged. But probably not soon.

Letting an other empire move through your space isn't the same as shared vision, though, as you could still have stealthy stuff they wouldn't be able to detect, and they'd have to actually do the scouting to get the benefits, rather than just knowing all of what you can see, including all your ships not in your own supply network.
But, IIRC, there is some new fleet order in master that allows blockade without triggering combat.
I think that just applies for empires at war.
IMO, best way would be to have a policy to share supply with peaceful or allied empires, the same that there is a policy to share repair with allied empires.
Alliance without shared supply seems odd.

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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#130 Post by Oberlus »

LienRag wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:34 pmwe need I think one diplomatic action that share supply but not information (view).
Would you open a feature request on Github?

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LienRag
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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#131 Post by LienRag »

Oberlus wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 1:41 pm
LienRag wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:34 pmwe need I think one diplomatic action that share supply but not information (view).
Would you open a feature request on Github?

I'm not really fond of Microsoft, actually...

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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#132 Post by LienRag »

Oberlus wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:16 pm
IMO, best way would be to have a policy to share supply with peaceful or allied empires, the same that there is a policy to share repair with allied empires.
Good idea.

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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#133 Post by Ophiuchus »

as long as bobit does not show up - we should halt the game (like o01eg currently does +1) and do something.

I have mainly two-and-a-half suggestions:
  • find somebody to fill in for bobit (best option)
  • geoff as a neutral observer could log in as bobit, change all colonies to defense and set bobit to auto-turn (if that existed).
  • if auto-turn does not exist then either implement auto-turn or implement concede as change-all-colonies-to-defense-and-keep-shield-defense-and-troop-max-values and let o01eg put that to his server (yikes)
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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#134 Post by o01eg »

Ophiuchus wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:57 pm as long as bobit does not show up - we should halt the game (like o01eg currently does +1) and do something.

I have mainly two-and-a-half suggestions:
  • find somebody to fill in for bobit (best option)
  • geoff as a neutral observer could log in as bobit, change all colonies to defense and set bobit to auto-turn (if that existed).
  • if auto-turn does not exist then either implement auto-turn or implement concede as change-all-colonies-to-defense-and-keep-shield-defense-and-troop-max-values and let o01eg put that to his server (yikes)
Auto-turn is implemented in future release but lacks UI support.

Even if I set all colonies to defence server will wait bobit to make a turn until his empire will be eliminated.
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Re: Fiftteent game on the multiplayer slow game server

#135 Post by Oberlus »

I don't think we can find anyone to play for Bobit. We never find anyone to play for anyone.

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