Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

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Ophiuchus
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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#106 Post by Ophiuchus »

Trith definitly are overpowered without growth specials.

And lets make growth special probability a different setting from other specials.

And lets have turn numbers indicated on the statistics.

Suggested Trith nerf: tiny/small home planet? That should slow them down without taking away that virtual growth special bonus. Or make half that bonus and let them have a rare single growth special giving the other half of the bonus.
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Oberlus
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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#107 Post by Oberlus »

I went ahead and made a PR that I think reasonable: PR#3232.
Maybe it isn't enough of a nerf, but should help a lot: from large to medium it's -33% population, quite a nerf. After testing it a bit I think it can work, and that using small starting planet could be just too much for them to be viable without lots of luck. But I'm not sure, not tested enough.

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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#108 Post by wobbly »

I doubt starting with a small planet would be that serious a problem for a race that can colonize just about any planet, has the detection range to explore quickly and just gained an extra starting supply from the small planet, but then again starting with medium and seeing where that goes is ok too I guess.

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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#109 Post by wobbly »

Just looking at it, doesn't small still put them at 16? that's actually not too bad considering just how good their bonuses. A worse start then everyone else would go a long way to evening things out.

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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#110 Post by Oberlus »

wobbly wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:03 pm I doubt starting with a small planet would be that serious a problem for a race that can colonize just about any planet, has the detection range to explore quickly and just gained an extra starting supply from the small planet, but then again starting with medium and seeing where that goes is ok too I guess.
It doesn't have an extra starting supply, I gave it bad supply. So same supply from HW, worse from colonies.
Medium planets are size 3, large are 4 and so +33% population -> +33% industry/research (or -25% from 4 to 3). This means they no longer start with more production and/or research than other species. That, together with bad industry, will take a toll on how fast they can get more colonies. Hopefully that will be enough. For this game, it would have implied that Trith would have similar research than the average and among the worse in industry.
Also keep in mind that self-sustaining has been always OP and is pending a revision, I'm counting on that too. Also consider they get considerably penalized in packed up galaxies (their population becomes effectively non-selfsustaining). If you make them small (just 50% of current population) they will be the least producing species at start.

But I get your point: starting population 24 (against 20 of Humans) is still quite good... Damnit, self-sustaining is indeed broken.
Still, starting with 16 population could be too bad, I forsee. Yet I need to playtest (no time now).

What about bad population with medium planet? That would leave them about 20 or 22 pop (didn't check numbers).

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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#111 Post by wobbly »

Hmm I didn't notice you gave it bad industry and bad supply. I think at some stage the race balance needs to be looked at in general, just because a lot of races are currently a lot stronger then human/Abaddoni. Replicon are reasonably close with good industry/bad research and Etty are a bunch of bonuses and maluses. Laenfa were closer to humans before they were buffed. Still better but not by a lot. Then you've got a whole bunch of races that are just crazily powerful compared to them for some reason.

I don't know it seems if balance decisions keep being made by comparing to things like Chato and gyschae etc. the problem with humans is just going to be exasperated. Anyway bit of a semi-rant there.

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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#112 Post by ThinkSome »

NerfSome

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Oberlus
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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#113 Post by Oberlus »

wobbly wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:43 pm Hmm I didn't notice you gave it bad industry and bad supply. I think at some stage the race balance needs to be looked at in general, just because a lot of races are currently a lot stronger then human/Abaddoni. Replicon are reasonably close with good industry/bad research and Etty are a bunch of bonuses and maluses. Laenfa were closer to humans before they were buffed. Still better but not by a lot. Then you've got a whole bunch of races that are just crazily powerful compared to them for some reason.

I don't know it seems if balance decisions keep being made by comparing to things like Chato and gyschae etc. the problem with humans is just going to be exasperated. Anyway bit of a semi-rant there.
I agree. There are so many things to do... Proposals are always welcome!

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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#114 Post by wobbly »

So I'd say your suggested nerf is probably about right if self sustaining and telepathy are being dealt with seperately. Don't want to have to rebuff them if that changes.

I have some ideas for race balance, not sure whether to open individual threads for each race or a bigger general thread. For instance good fuel could be interesting for humans as it gives them something that plays a little differently.

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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#115 Post by Oberlus »

wobbly wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:42 am So I'd say your suggested nerf is probably about right if self sustaining and telepathy are being dealt with seperately. Don't want to have to rebuff them if that changes.
For self-sustaining, we already got something to try out.
For telepathy, upping most other research/industry boosts should do the trick, at the same time that game pace gets a bit faster again.
wobbly wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:42 amI have some ideas for race balance, not sure whether to open individual threads for each race or a bigger general thread. For instance good fuel could be interesting for humans as it gives them something that plays a little differently.
Do as you find better. Maybe both at the same time, one thread for general discussion (maybe there is one already, I didn't check) and dedicated threads for discussing specific changes.

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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#116 Post by LienRag »

wobbly wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:00 am See the 50 uu circle? An abbadoni scout here can see both approach lines though a fast enough ship will slip through the southern system and possibly even the north one by going NW and taking the long way round. (which requires long fuel or supply and is much slower)
bottleneck.png
This picture allows me to ask a question I never had the answer to (mostly because I didn't ask it, of course) : in a situation like this (with a scout or a scanning facility at the center of the circle), what will the scout owner see of Alcor alpha and Alcor beta, since they are not entirely inside the circle ? Especially, if there's a fleet holding at Alcor a|b, will it always be seen ?

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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#117 Post by wobbly »

Ships and planets are located at the center of the circle. It'll see Alcor beta but not Alcor alpha

ThinkSome
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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#118 Post by ThinkSome »

Just fyi- if there ever was a scout there, it would be seen by my trith one, and it would be destroyed.

wobbly
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Re: Thirteenth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#119 Post by wobbly »

ThinkSome wrote: Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:32 pm Just fyi- if there ever was a scout there, it would be seen by my trith one, and it would be destroyed.
Possibly. The point of a spot like that that is you can see the approach lines. It's a hard place to catch a ship without blockading from both directions.

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