Ninth game on the multiplayer slow game server

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swaq
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Re: Ninth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#196 Post by swaq »

Oberlus wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:49 pm
swaq wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:46 pm
Oberlus wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:29 am Also, FYI, happiness fix is not expected to work on Exobots, so they will have that 5 turns delay before growing PP/RP meters.
This is incorrect, it should work for Exobots. It's just the xenophobic malus which can't apply to NO_STOCKPILE species which I believe doesn't apply to Exobots anyway.
Ah, OK. I was understanding the effect the other way round. So the problem is that for Exobots it will be applying nonstop. Quite more bearable for me in my current doomed situation :D
Yes, the way it's written it's impossible for it to make your happiness worse than it should be, only better.

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Re: Ninth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#197 Post by Oberlus »

swaq wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:36 pm Yes, the way it's written it's impossible for it to make your happiness worse than it should be, only better.
Well, fluff-wise, Exobots are built to be acceptably happy...
Wait, does that mean they will never reach happiness 5 and so they will never be able to produce any PP/RP? :shock:

Edit: if that is so, I can concede now.

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Re: Ninth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#198 Post by ThinkSome »

Oberlus wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:49 pm Quite more bearable for me in my current doomed situation :D
Magnate wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:45 am ... But it may make the difference between me surviving and not, as the system concerned is the choke point that blocks me off from the rest of the galaxy, and if Oberlus prevails I am doomed I tell you, doomed.
Can't tell who is more doomed...

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swaq
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Re: Ninth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#199 Post by swaq »

Oberlus wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:42 pm
swaq wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 3:36 pm Yes, the way it's written it's impossible for it to make your happiness worse than it should be, only better.
Well, fluff-wise, Exobots are built to be acceptably happy...
Wait, does that mean they will never reach happiness 5 and so they will never be able to produce any PP/RP? :shock:

Edit: if that is so, I can concede now.
No. The happiness fix is only for starting happiness. It still grows +1 per turn as expected. Since Exobots have no Good planets the best they can start with is 3 happiness so it will take those colonies 2 turns to start being productive.

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Re: Ninth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#200 Post by Oberlus »

Pheeeeew! Ok then!

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Re: Ninth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#201 Post by Magnate »

So I think I found another manifestation of the regen bug. Oberlus evacuated one of his planets (funny that). It has no population and it is an outpost - it had zero shields and defence and was not involved in combat this turn (32). Yet now it has 1 shields and 1 defence, and says its target values are 10 and 20 respectively. Presumably this happened because it has no infrastructure? Are outposts treated differently from colonies for these meters?

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Re: Ninth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#202 Post by Oberlus »

Magnate wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:05 pm So I think I found another manifestation of the regen bug. Oberlus evacuated one of his planets (funny that). It has no population and it is an outpost - it had zero shields and defence and was not involved in combat this turn (32). Yet now it has 1 shields and 1 defence, and says its target values are 10 and 20 respectively. Presumably this happened because it has no infrastructure? Are outposts treated differently from colonies for these meters?
It might have something to do with the reloading of a turn before and the new effects to fix the happiness thingy. Let's see if that happens again in the following turns (if you can hold your horses and not conquer that outpost for two turns straight).

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Re: Ninth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#203 Post by Magnate »

Oberlus wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:19 pm
Magnate wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 11:05 pm So I think I found another manifestation of the regen bug. Oberlus evacuated one of his planets (funny that). It has no population and it is an outpost - it had zero shields and defence and was not involved in combat this turn (32). Yet now it has 1 shields and 1 defence, and says its target values are 10 and 20 respectively. Presumably this happened because it has no infrastructure? Are outposts treated differently from colonies for these meters?
It might have something to do with the reloading of a turn before and the new effects to fix the happiness thingy. Let's see if that happens again in the following turns (if you can hold your horses and not conquer that outpost for two turns straight).
No, it's just happened again on turn 34 - it's the old bug, where it regenerates every two turns because it doesn't participate in combat when it is at 0 shields 0 defence. The fix obviously doesn't work for outposts, presumably because they have no infrastructure?

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Re: Ninth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#204 Post by Oberlus »

Magnate wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:42 am No, it's just happened again on turn 34 - it's the old bug, where it regenerates every two turns because it doesn't participate in combat when it is at 0 shields 0 defence. The fix obviously doesn't work for outposts, presumably because they have no infrastructure?
You're so right: outposts doesn't have infrastructure, and the fix doens't work for them.
Geoff the Medio wrote:...
So... Make planets regenerate one shield regardless of techs and lastturncombat status? For outposts to trigger combat every turn.

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Re: Ninth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#205 Post by Geoff the Medio »

Oberlus wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:05 amSo... Make planets regenerate one shield regardless of techs and lastturncombat status? For outposts to trigger combat every turn.
Isn't the problem that planets are regenerating shields or defense when they shouldn't? Does making them always do so help?

Maybe in Defense.focs.txt do something like:

Code: Select all

        EffectsGroup    // regenerate 1 per turn
            scope = And [
                Planet
                OwnedBy empire = Source.Owner
                (LocalCandidate.LastTurnAttackedByShip < CurrentTurn)
                (LocalCandidate.LastTurnBattleHere < CurrentTurn)
                Not ContainedBy condition = And [
                    System
                    Contains condition = And [
                        Ship
                        Aggressive
                        Armed
                        OwnedBy affiliation = EnemyOf empire = RootCandidate.Owner
                    ]
                ]
            ]

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Re: Ninth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#206 Post by Ophiuchus »

swaq wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:46 pm
Oberlus wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:29 am Also, FYI, happiness fix is not expected to work on Exobots, so they will have that 5 turns delay before growing PP/RP meters.
This is incorrect, it should work for Exobots.
Hm not sure. Starting tech PRO_PREDICTIVE_STOCKPILING provides 1 MaxStockpile to every planet, which would be enough. But NO_STOCKPILE species also do not have the STANDARD_STOCKPILE macro, which does the stockpile increase.

That maybe should be changed. Currently the idea is that a NO_STOCKPILE species (exobot, hidden gardener, ancient guardians so in effect exobot only) is not able to generate any type of stockpile at all (so tech etc bonus do not help). I would rely on Oberlus on balancing input. Also (Source.System.LastTurnBattleHere < CurrentTurn) in default/scripting/species/common/stockpile.macros looks fishy - cant remember why it is there.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Look, ma... four combat bouts!

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Re: Ninth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#207 Post by Oberlus »

Geoff the Medio wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:28 pm
Oberlus wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:05 amSo... Make planets regenerate one shield regardless of techs and lastturncombat status? For outposts to trigger combat every turn.
Isn't the problem that planets are regenerating shields or defense when they shouldn't? Does making them always do so help?
The specific problem is that when combat is not triggered in turn X, you can't invade on turn X+1 despite having there armed ships, and for outposts that were in combat during turn X-1, there would be no shield regeneration at turn X and so they won't be targetted (no combat), will regenerate one shield and at the start of turn X+1 the invasion button will be disabled.


I might be wrong due to my lack of knowledge of the backend turn processing, but I think it could be solved by making the turns works like this:

Initial situation (what the player sees during the time s/he can issue orders):
  1. Target planet has zero shields and defenses.
  2. Invade button is enabled because the player has troop ships in the system.
  3. Player presses the invade button.
Turn orders processing:
  1. Planet shield regeneration takes places (at least 1, plus any effect enabled by researched techs).
  2. Combat resolution (planets would always have at least 1 shield and so be targettable in this turn).
  3. Invasion resoluton (since combat triggered for sure, as long as the troop ships were not destroyed and the planet lost its shields during combat, ground battle would take place).

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Re: Ninth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#208 Post by Oberlus »

Geoff the Medio wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:28 pm Maybe in Defense.focs.txt do something like:

Code: Select all

        EffectsGroup    // regenerate 1 per turn
            scope = And [
                Planet
                OwnedBy empire = Source.Owner
                (LocalCandidate.LastTurnAttackedByShip < CurrentTurn)
                (LocalCandidate.LastTurnBattleHere < CurrentTurn)
                Not ContainedBy condition = And [
                    System
                    Contains condition = And [
                        Ship
                        Aggressive
                        Armed
                        OwnedBy affiliation = EnemyOf empire = RootCandidate.Owner
                    ]
                ]
            ]
I guess that could work. I'll test it today (I think).

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Re: Ninth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#209 Post by Oberlus »

Ophiuchus wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:46 pm
swaq wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:46 pm
Oberlus wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:29 am Also, FYI, happiness fix is not expected to work on Exobots, so they will have that 5 turns delay before growing PP/RP meters.
This is incorrect, it should work for Exobots.
Hm not sure. Starting tech PRO_PREDICTIVE_STOCKPILING provides 1 MaxStockpile to every planet, which would be enough. But NO_STOCKPILE species also do not have the STANDARD_STOCKPILE macro, which does the stockpile increase.

That maybe should be changed. [...]
You're probably right, but it isn't relevant anymore because the stockpile hack ha's been changed with the new FOCS LastTurnColonized keyword.

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swaq
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Re: Ninth game on the multiplayer slow game server

#210 Post by swaq »

Oberlus wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:56 pm
Ophiuchus wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:46 pm
swaq wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:46 pm
This is incorrect, it should work for Exobots.
Hm not sure. Starting tech PRO_PREDICTIVE_STOCKPILING provides 1 MaxStockpile to every planet, which would be enough. But NO_STOCKPILE species also do not have the STANDARD_STOCKPILE macro, which does the stockpile increase.

That maybe should be changed. [...]
You're probably right, but it isn't relevant anymore because the stockpile hack ha's been changed with the new FOCS LastTurnColonized keyword.
It isn't relevant to the happiness fix anyway because having no stockpile only breaks xenophobic malus which shouldn't apply to Exobots. But we may want to reconsider how stockpile works on NO_STOCKPILE species anyway for the sake of stockpile itself.

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