Stargates

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Gargamel
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Stargates

#1 Post by Gargamel » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:13 pm

Just some random thoughts I have. Bear with me as my brain fart evolves here.

Obviously, in my mind at least, they are based on Stargate (SG-1, Atlantis, SGU, etc, that universe).

I think it would be cool to include (as an option during galaxy creation) ancient stargates, a couple few of them, scattered around the galaxy. Discoverable like ancient ruins and the like.

If you discover one, and haven't researched the tech yet, you'd get a significant bonus towards unlocking the tech (50%?). Of course you'd still need to get the pre reqs, but once you get there, it will be much easier to get.

If you don't have the tech, you could still set the focus to stargate 'send', but you would have no control over which of the pre made random stargates you'd end up at. You wouldn't have the ability to set it to 'receive' yet though, so controlling where you end up is still random. And after using the stargate, there would be like a 5 turn cool down before you could use it again. That way it wouldn't be that good for invasion, just random exploration.

And maybe there could be a feature that would be added to a lower tech level, that would allow the 'send' and 'receive' focus. Discovering a gate would have the bonus applied to this tech. The normal gate tech would still be required to build new gates.

If you, or an enemy, sent a ship through a gate without having a 'receiving' gate set, it would be random between the preplaced gates. This may cause you to have a 'backdoor' in defenses, but once you have two gates established, and can set the direction of the gates, those two (or more) gates would be considered 'connected'. Just like in the SG world, if you maintain an active gate, incoming connections would be refused, so you could 'lock' the backdoor.

Once you unlock the tech that allows you to build gates, it would allow you to turn off the random part of it, automatically refusing connections from gates you do not control. Any of the premade gates that you control would act like normal gates at this point.

And while these may provide a sort of beachhead to the player that discovers one first, it wouldn't be connected to the supply lines (unless it would be normally), so you could send troops, but not help it's production.

Just some random thoughts to add some variety to the game.

LienRag
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Re: Stargates

#2 Post by LienRag » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:46 pm

Another old idea that's still quite interesting...

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The Silent One
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Re: Stargates

#3 Post by The Silent One » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:32 pm

Go at it, then :wink:
If I provided any images, code, scripts or other content here, it's released under GPL 2.0 and CC-BY-SA 3.0.

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labgnome
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Re: Stargates

#4 Post by labgnome » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:45 pm

Gargamel wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:13 pm
I think it would be cool to include (as an option during galaxy creation) ancient stargates, a couple few of them, scattered around the galaxy. Discoverable like ancient ruins and the like.
Would you have them as their own building or done as something that could be uncovered from ancient ruins?
If you discover one, and haven't researched the tech yet, you'd get a significant bonus towards unlocking the tech (50%?). Of course you'd still need to get the pre reqs, but once you get there, it will be much easier to get.
That sounds like an interesting idea.
If you don't have the tech, you could still set the focus to stargate 'send', but you would have no control over which of the pre made random stargates you'd end up at. You wouldn't have the ability to set it to 'receive' yet though, so controlling where you end up is still random. And after using the stargate, there would be like a 5 turn cool down before you could use it again. That way it wouldn't be that good for invasion, just random exploration.
This might be a less good idea requiring a re-wording of the stargates themselves.
And maybe there could be a feature that would be added to a lower tech level, that would allow the 'send' and 'receive' focus. Discovering a gate would have the bonus applied to this tech. The normal gate tech would still be required to build new gates.
Fleshing out technology around the stargates might be something for the current re-working of the technology tree.
If you, or an enemy, sent a ship through a gate without having a 'receiving' gate set, it would be random between the preplaced gates. This may cause you to have a 'backdoor' in defenses, but once you have two gates established, and can set the direction of the gates, those two (or more) gates would be considered 'connected'. Just like in the SG world, if you maintain an active gate, incoming connections would be refused, so you could 'lock' the backdoor.
This also would require a substantial re-work of the stargates, especially since they require a "receive" focus to be set to receive at all.
All of my contributions should be considered released under creative commons attribution share-alike license, CC-BY-SA 3.0 for use in, by and with the Free Orion project.

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Re: Stargates

#5 Post by Ophiuchus » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:31 am

Because stargates are probably IMHO the single most powerful technology (you can send your complete Fleet from one end of the galaxy to the other in a single turn), one thing i would like to see is a clue that there is incoming traffic. So in case of invasion you get to do an extra turn to respond - maybe there would be even a way to counter the stargate before the enemies can get through. So maybe the attacker has to combine stealth, imperial stockpile, disruption and stargates for a super effective surprise attack.

In the most basic form this would show a field around a system where there is a stargate with incoming focus (and maybe it should take some turns to establish the receiving possibilites in a system).

Back to the OP
Gargamel wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:13 pm
If you discover one, and haven't researched the tech yet, you'd get a significant bonus towards unlocking the tech (50%?). Of course you'd still need to get the pre reqs, but once you get there, it will be much easier to get.
..
And maybe there could be a feature that would be added to a lower tech level, that would allow the 'send' and 'receive' focus. Discovering a gate would have the bonus applied to this tech. The normal gate tech would still be required to build new gates.
Not sure the bonus to building stargate tech is good/necessary. Having the lower techs to make use of existing stargates is more interesting.
Gargamel wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:13 pm
If you don't have the tech, you could still set the focus to stargate 'send', but you would have no control over which of the pre made random stargates you'd end up at. You wouldn't have the ability to set it to 'receive' yet though, so controlling where you end up is still random. And after using the stargate, there would be like a 5 turn cool down before you could use it again. That way it wouldn't be that good for invasion, just random exploration.

If you, or an enemy, sent a ship through a gate without having a 'receiving' gate set, it would be random between the preplaced gates. This may cause you to have a 'backdoor' in defenses, but once you have two gates established, and can set the direction of the gates, those two (or more) gates would be considered 'connected'. Just like in the SG world, if you maintain an active gate, incoming connections would be refused, so you could 'lock' the backdoor.
I think this is all scriptable without too much effort but the 'connected' idea. One way to solve:
Stargates are eligable for random exit if and only if:
  • receiving stargate planet is either unowned or owned by your empire
  • receiving stargate is not set to send focus
  • you did not set an incoming focus on one of your stargates
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Furthermore, I propse... we should default to four combat rounds instead of three ...for the good of playerkind.

LienRag
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Re: Stargates

#6 Post by LienRag » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:48 pm

The Silent One wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:32 pm
Go at it, then :wink:
I'm not certain that you'd like the result if I were to touch your codebase... and as you're the Graphic guys I'm positive that you don't want me to touch FreeOrion's graphics!


I don't see the use for "owned" stargates able to allow an enemy invasion? If we limit that to "neutral" stargates and allow fleet going through a neutral stargate to go only towards other neutral stargates or towards receiving stargates of their owner Empires, it seems to me that it solves the problem (or more precisely makes it non-existent).

Since fleet going through these neutral stargates, at least at the beginning of the game, would find themselves out of supply, it raises the strategic interest of Organic Hulls, fuel parts, and Ramscoop - which is a good thing imho.
It would certainly raise the usefulness of tankers as proposed here but TheSilentOne is right that it would be micromanagement hell and I can't find a way for it not to be...

And I approve everything Ophiuchus wrote so far on this topic, if it matters to anyone.

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Oberlus
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Re: Stargates

#7 Post by Oberlus » Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:10 am

LienRag wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:48 pm
I'm not certain that you'd like the result if I were to touch your codebase... and as you're the Graphic guys I'm positive that you don't want me to touch FreeOrion's graphics!
It does not work like that. If you are really interested into doing something (either for yourself o for FreeOrion's community), you wil do it on your own copy of the FreeOrion project. Then you'll be free to submit (do "pull requests") your work to the FreeOrion project, and the FreeOrion project owners would review, correct if necessary, and accept or reject your contribution.
In no way would you be "touching their codebase or graphics".

So, by all means, go ahead and try by yourself your ideas. Most probably one of two things will happen: you'll fine it too difficult or insufficiently rewarding so you will not finish anything, or you will finish some contribution and the FreeOrion community will gain another valuable contributor.

FWI, FreeOrion is deeply understaffed. Right now I think FO has surplus of designers (like me) and lack of implementators.
Pleasepleaseplease, join fifth multiplayer slow game!

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The Silent One
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Re: Stargates

#8 Post by The Silent One » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:13 am

LienRag wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:48 pm
I'm not certain that you'd like the result if I were to touch your codebase... and as you're the Graphic guys I'm positive that you don't want me to touch FreeOrion's graphics!
Expanding on what Oberlus said: if you have a fun idea (which I think this is), you should try to have a go at it. Only once in a blue moon you will find someone who will do it for you. But, if people see you're putting in hard work and but have run into troubles, they will offer their assistance. I can hear your enthusiasm, but you need to put it into action.

That being said, this specific idea sounds like not-too-bad of a starting project, probably requiring mostly or only the use of FOCS. For how to use FOCS, there are many examples as well as a tutorial: https://freeorion.org/index.php/FOCS_Scripting_Tutorial. Also you should familiarise yourself with the structure of the content folder ("default") and especially the scripting folder ("default/scripting"). Create your own local FreeOrion repo and start trying out stuff.
If I provided any images, code, scripts or other content here, it's released under GPL 2.0 and CC-BY-SA 3.0.

LienRag
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Re: Stargates

#9 Post by LienRag » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:38 pm

Thank you for pointing me to FOCS tutorial, I didn't understand that modifying game mechanisms was possible without C++ (and a good knowledge of the existing codebase).
I'll try to experiment with it then, and let you know if I succeed doing so.

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