colony ships

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pd
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colony ships

#1 Post by pd »

Currently there are two ship parts, that allow a ship to colonize planets. Each can be put on every hull. Does this mean we will be able to build armed colony ships? Does this mean, the ships don't get dismantled when colonizing a planet?

Notice, that I haven't actually build such a ship and colonized a planet yet. It's quite possible, that designing such ships is currently just possible because the implementation of the design screen is incomplete and there need to be some limitations set... still I'd like to get some opinions on this.

Armed and/or Non-Dismantling-Colony Ships - yes or no?

Personally I think there should be a colony hull, that is predestined to hold colony modules. It might get dismantled and it might have no exterior slots, that hold weapons. But I don't see a reason why the player should not be allowed to choose another hull, put a colony pod on it and also some weapons. Such a ship would then not get dismantled and there needs to be a way to refill the empty slot. The colony created from such a ship, might get a penalty of some kind.

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Krikkitone
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Re: colony ships

#2 Post by Krikkitone »

I'd say Yes (as long as the "non dismantled" colony ship can be "reloaded"... send it back to the shipyard and refit/rebuild it)

Armed ones would be useful for
1. keeping it safe as it got there
2. temporary colony defense after it unloaded (sort of like Colony coming with a instant Starbase... just a mobile one)

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: colony ships

#3 Post by Geoff the Medio »

Colony ships that aren't consumed by creating a colony might actually be simpler to implement than ships that are consumed, but if we're going to have any ships that are consumed, as we now do, then having ones that aren't seems like an unnecessary complication. Aside from the extra micromanagement and interface required to send them back and reload, what significant advantage would having reloadable colony ships give?

Armoured colony ships will be possible unless we have a particular reason not to allow them.

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Tortanick
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Re: colony ships

#4 Post by Tortanick »

Well presumably they'd be cheaper since you don't need to build a new one every time.

Still though I'm ok with having dissapearing colony ships with a full compliment of arms and armour, just leave it to the player to think weather its worth spending money on all those fleeting weapons.

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: colony ships

#5 Post by Geoff the Medio »

Tortanick wrote:Well presumably they'd be cheaper since you don't need to build a new one every time.
This is irrelivant; we'd undoubtedly balance whatever we add to the game. The relevant point is that is this extra mechanic sufficiently useful / interesting to be worth implementing and balancing. Keep in mind: we're making a game, not playing one (yet).

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eleazar
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Re: colony ships

#6 Post by eleazar »

Geoff the Medio wrote:Colony ships that aren't consumed by creating a colony might actually be simpler to implement than ships that are consumed, but if we're going to have any ships that are consumed, as we now do, then having ones that aren't seems like an unnecessary complication. Aside from the extra micromanagement and interface required to send them back and reload, what significant advantage would having reloadable colony ships give?
I agree, i don't see a reason to have both consumable and non-consumable colony ships.
But i see even less reason to have refillable colony ships. It adds no advantage. It simply adds the busy-work of having to send the empty colony ships back to where it can get a new module. And it adds the need to check if your colony ship is "full" or "empty". I've never heard of a game which used refillable colony-ships (though there probably is one somewhere), but with good reason most players will expect the colony ship to be used up.

Conceptually, i like to think that the entire ship is dismantled and used as material to build the new colony. There need be nothing left.

Geoff the Medio wrote:Armoured colony ships will be possible unless we have a particular reason not to allow them.
It seems reasonable that you should be able to configure your colonyship to a certain degree.

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Krikkitone
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Re: colony ships

#7 Post by Krikkitone »

Actually I would suggest that colony ships either be
1. Modifiable+Refillable and non Consumed
OR
2. Non Modifiable, Totally Consumed

For the Case of Number 2, you might have different Versions of Colony Ships (that give more starting pop/Infrastructure and have different speeds... but they are researched like Hull types) Then the way to "customize" them would be to give them an Escort.

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eleazar
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Re: colony ships

#8 Post by eleazar »

Krikkitone wrote:Actually I would suggest that colony ships either be...
Why?

Orioes
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Re: colony ships

#9 Post by Orioes »

As an idea if we are to have customizable expendable colony ships we could include a series of "colony defense" parts that provide minimal defense to the ship enroute (enough to run to the closest jump point or force out the enemy recon/colony ship) and then be converted to a level 1 beam base/missile base/fighter garrison when the ship is broken up to form the colony.

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Krikkitone
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Re: colony ships

#10 Post by Krikkitone »

If they are
Modifiable and Consumed... then

I build a Colony ship with Heavy Weapons... it gets consumed and makes a colony
I build another Colony ship without Heavy Weapons (identical otherwise) when it is consumed, I get the EXACT same Colony.

Feels wrong/imbalanced/unfair

On the other hand if the "Colony" part of the fleet is the only thing that is consumed (either as part of a ship oe one ship in the fleet) then the consumption can 'feel right'

On the other hand if 'extra stuff' is lost when consumed, then it feels strange.

the previous suggestion might work. Colony ships ge customized in particular ways and each "part" to a colony ship becomes some part of the Colony

Faster Engine-> more Infrastructure/more Industry
Weapons-> starting weapons bases
Shields-> initial Planetary Shield, etc.

I think that would be the ideal method.

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Robbie.Price
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Re: colony ships

#11 Post by Robbie.Price »

I like the idea of extras on the colony ship being used to pre-upgrade the colony,

though i would have the list be

Faster Engine-> more Infrastructure/more Industry
Weapons-> starting orbital platform
Shields-> initial small boost to farming *shields being used to make greenhouses*

but that's just how i see it,


Best wishes all

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Josh
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Re: colony ships

#12 Post by Josh »

eleazar wrote:I've never heard of a game which used refillable colony-ships (though there probably is one somewhere)
Ascendancy
It will give you a better idea of what happens when people use refillable colony ships.

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Tortanick
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Re: colony ships

#13 Post by Tortanick »

Shouldn't shields be used to give a starting boost to planetary shields, or generic defences (I forgot if we have planet shields)

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shrinkshooter
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Re: colony ships

#14 Post by shrinkshooter »

Josh pretty much stole my thunder. That said, I've made plenty of ships with a weapons' array and some colony establishers. It doubles as a warship and colonizer, and is extremely helpful for going way, way out there and gaining a foothold (ship defends system while colony builds up over time). Thus, i vote for non-dismantling of ships that have a colonizing asset that would allow for the kind of warship-colonizer described above. However, we could also have a special kind of ship that gets dismantled upon colonization; this ship would allow for a "larger" colony that grows faster to be established, and is superior to the capabilities of the warship-colonizer. Thoughts?
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marhawkman
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Re: colony ships

#15 Post by marhawkman »

Stars! had custom built colony ships, so do the Space Empires games.

In Stars!, a colony ship was essentially "scrapped" and you'd have on the planet starting resources equivalent to it's scrap value. Therefore the more expensive the ship the more resources the colony had available(but in stars! this translated to building materials, Freeorion does not use that as a planetary scale). We could model this sort of thing as having weapons/armor boost the planet's defense/offense. Or you could simply get back part of the materials into your empire resource pool. It makes the "cost" temporary instead of a total oneway ticket.

In SE5 the ship gets dismantled and disappears entirely(no resources gained), but EVERYTHING in it's cargo gets dumped on the planet. So you can load a few weapon platforms into the ship and have instant colony defenses when you get there.
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