Artistic trait OP for most playable species

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Grummel7
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Artistic trait OP for most playable species

#1 Post by Grummel7 »

Oberlus wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:55 pm when Artistic species are available, which always happens if you are Cray, Egassem, Human or Scylior
There also quite a few native artisans, just check the pedia.

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Oberlus
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Re: Influence by Terraforming OP?

#2 Post by Oberlus »

Grummel7 wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:49 pm
Oberlus wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:55 pm when Artistic species are available, which always happens if you are Cray, Egassem, Human or Scylior
There also quite a few native artisans, just check the pedia.
I know, 6 native and 1 extinct species are Artistic. Only three can colonize (Sslith; Silexian, that dislike Artisan Workshops and have very bad influence; and Misiorla).
I meant that when you don't start with Artistic, there are chances you won't get any Artistic species if RNG hates you. Well, actually, you don't need much bad luck to not get any Artistic native species in a default-settings game.

But when you start with it then there is no much to wonder: you get Artisan Workshops and can get the most of it from start. With Terraforming you need to invest much more time but don't have the Artistic restriction, but if you have Artistic from start you can get more influence than anyone going Terraforming, at least until very late game when most planets can have been terraformed.

Hmmm... Now I'm sure Artisan Workshops, or better, playable artistic species, are still quite powerful in influence, at least for Cray and Scylior, that also have good influence. Maybe those species should not be Artistic, and some other Natives should be. What do you think?

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Grummel7
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Re: Influence by Terraforming OP?

#3 Post by Grummel7 »

A few weeks ago, the three species could produce 4 * 1.5 = 6 points, which was definitely too much.

Now is it 2 * 1.25 = 2.5, which is still strong, but not totally OP. It is a matter of overall balancing. Maybe humans should be the only species that is artistic and good at influence?

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Oberlus
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Re: Influence by Terraforming OP?

#4 Post by Oberlus »

+1

LienRag asked for Humans to be all average. Maybe let them be Artistic but average influence?
In any case, Humans should be Artistic, it fits.

Cray are a bit OP, and their fluff doesn't say anything about liking arts or being good at it. So let's remove Artistic.

Scylior's description also says nothing about arts, and they are a bit OP, so no Artistic.

Egassem can really use the unfocused +0.5 IP, they are bad influence. But also they seem so weird to be Artistic, and they are great at conquering other species so could get the artistic species that way. So yes, I'm OK with removing the Artistic. Wobbly, what do you think about this?

I'll find time to search for some natives to make Artistic, but suggestions welcome.

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Re: Influence by Terraforming OP?

#5 Post by wobbly »

Sounds reasonable. I like the weirdness of Egassem being artistic, though I'd be fine with it being removed. For some reason it just adds a touch of character to them.

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LienRag
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Re: Influence by Terraforming OP?

#6 Post by LienRag »

Silexian certainly should stay Artistic, they're basically useless (except for Supply).
Probably more non-colonists should become Artistic, it adds flavor but isn't unbalanced.

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Re: Influence by Terraforming OP?

#7 Post by LienRag »

Also "Artisan Workshops" need to be renamed in "Patronage" or something similar.
Having artisan workshops is fine and dandy, but has nothing to do with a Policy.
It's the use of art as an mean of soft power (like the Medicis did) that is a Policy.

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Grummel7
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Re: Influence by Terraforming OP?

#8 Post by Grummel7 »

LienRag wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:22 pm Also "Artisan Workshops" need to be renamed in "Patronage" or something similar.
Having artisan workshops is fine and dandy, but has nothing to do with a Policy.
It's the use of art as an mean of soft power (like the Medicis did) that is a Policy.
The freeorion forum has an bad tendency to drift away from the subject of a thread.

This thread already handles two topic, but your post is totally unrelated to anything discussed so far. Would you please start another thread?

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Oberlus
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Re: Artistic trait OP for most playable species

#9 Post by Oberlus »

I split the two threads.

LienRag wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:22 pm Also "Artisan Workshops" need to be renamed in "Patronage" or something similar.
Having artisan workshops is fine and dandy, but has nothing to do with a Policy.
It's the use of art as an mean of soft power (like the Medicis did) that is a Policy.
FreeOrion "Policies" are also some other stuff.
BTW, imagine when your whole empire consists of just a single individual, George, and you adopt Propaganda Broadcasts and Terror Supression...

Patronage sounds like giving money to artists. The "workshops" seem to have more impact in the population. I'm OK with either name.

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LienRag
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Re: Artistic trait OP for most playable species

#10 Post by LienRag »

Thanks.

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