Racial Purity policy

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Oberlus
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Racial Purity policy

#1 Post by Oberlus »

RACIAL PURITY

Code: Select all

                SetTargetHappiness value = Value -20
                SetTargetInfluence value = Value -5
                SetTargetResearch value = Value - 0.2*Target.Population
                SetTargetIndustry value = Value - 0.2*Target.Population
So this is a policy that can be liked by the xenophobic species (and hence you get a happiness/stability boost on their planets), but apart from that it only gives maluses to planets with species different from Capital's.

The other effect of the policy is hard to grasp for me, scripted within the Concentration Camps building effects:

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        EffectsGroup
            scope = And [
                Object id = Source.PlanetID
                Planet
            ]
            activation = ContainedBy And [
                PopulationCenter
                OwnedBy empire = Source.Owner
            ]
            priority = [[LATE_PRIORITY]]
            effects = SetTargetIndustry value = Value + Target.Population * 10

        EffectsGroup
            scope = And [
                Object id = Source.PlanetID
                Planet
            ]
            activation = Or [
                Not EmpireHasAdoptedPolicy empire = Source.Owner name = "PLC_RACIAL_PURITY"
                ContainedBy And [
                    PopulationCenter
                    OwnedBy empire = Source.Owner
                    Population low = 0.0001
                    Not HasSpecial name = "CONC_CAMP_MASTER_SPECIAL"
                ]
            ]
            effects = AddSpecial name = "CONC_CAMP_MASTER_SPECIAL"

        EffectsGroup
            scope = Source
            activation = ContainedBy And [
                    Object id = Source.PlanetID
                    Population high = 0
                ]
            effects = Destroy

        EffectsGroup
            scope = And [
                Object id = Source.PlanetID
                Planet
            ]
            activation = ContainedBy And [
                PopulationCenter
                OwnedBy empire = Source.Owner
                HasSpecial name = "CONC_CAMP_MASTER_SPECIAL"
            ]
            priority = [[CONCENTRATION_CAMP_PRIORITY]]
            effects = [
                SetPopulation value = min(Value, Target.Population - 3)
                SetIndustry value = Target.TargetIndustry
            ]

        EffectsGroup
            scope = Source
            activation = Or [
                Not EmpireHasAdoptedPolicy empire = Source.Owner name = "PLC_RACIAL_PURITY"
                Not ProducedByEmpire empire = Source.Owner
            ]
            effects = Destroy
These EffectsGroups do, in order:
  1. apply the concentration camps industry boost.
  2. add the special CONC_CAMP_MASTER_SPECIAL if the empire does not have the RACIAL PURITY policy (and the special isn't present already and there is population in the planet).
  3. destroy the camps if population is 0.
  4. override Industry and population growth
  5. destroy the camps if the (new) owners do not have RACIAL PURITY or did not build the camps
In turn, CONC_CAMP_MASTER_SPECIAL adds the CONC_CAMP_SLAVE_SPECIAL when there is population and no camps, creates a CONC_CAMP_REMNANT building if not present and there is no CONC_CAMP, and finally removes itself when there is no population.
And then CONC_CAMP_SLAVE_SPECIAL acts as the actual CONC_CAMPS_REMNANTS, reducing the population as if there where CONC_CAMPS still in place and ensuring the remnants building is present every turn (despite player scrapping it or whatever), removing itself once the population gets to 0 or luck intervenes.

So, the other (hidden) effect of RACIAL PURITY is that it allows empires to set and unset concentration camps without having to deal with the remnants?


Assuming I'm right, I think this needs more love.

Gameplay-wise, I don't see any value in applying this policy. Even if intermittently building and destroying camps in some panets could give a net gain in industry, that sounds hacky and can be seen as micromanagement (it certainly needs to be carried out repeatedly, to get the gain, and meticulously, to not let the population die out).

I suggest giving explicit bonuses to happiness and influence to planets with Capital's species, and removing the Industry malus to "inferior" species.



The fluff is also incomplete, or better absent.
What would be the kind of actions that the Empire applying RACIAL PURITY would undertake?

From the name, it sounds like not letting species interbreed, which makes little sense since there is no such thing.
Racial segregation (apartheid) could make some sense in a cultural and comercial sense (spatial seggregations is already ensured in a universe where there is only a single species per planet), but that then sounds more like CULTURAL DOMINATION, CULTURE ISOLATION or something like that, more focused on the thinking and behaving of individuals than on their racial purity.

It could be about ethnic cleansing, but then it should be detrimental to inferior species population, and it just sounds like the camps.

It could be about ethnic oppression, similar to slavery, letting them live but making them work harder for less (bonus to industry and stockpile, malus to research, happiness and influence). That makes sense to me but that would not be called RACIAL PURITY but RACIAL OPPRESSION or RACIAL SLAVERY.


Thoughts?

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Racial Purity policy

#2 Post by Geoff the Medio »

The "Racial Purity" policy is intended to be required to produce or keep concentration camps. If a camp is present but the empire doesn't have the policy adopted, it's supposed to remove the camp and add the remnants, so you get the penalty from the remnant without the benefit from the camp itself, and can't de-adopt the policy to remove the camps for free and bypass the remnants being generated when the camp removes itself after depopulating the planet.

The name refers to the ideal / goal that the empire should be "pure" and contain only a single species. Perhaps "Species Supremacy" would be better?

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Oberlus
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Re: Racial Purity policy

#3 Post by Oberlus »

Geoff the Medio wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:46 pm The "Racial Purity" policy is intended to be required to produce or keep concentration camps. If a camp is present but the empire doesn't have the policy adopted, it's supposed to remove the camp and add the remnants, so you get the penalty from the remnant without the benefit from the camp itself, and can't de-adopt the policy to remove the camps for free and bypass the remnants being generated when the camp removes itself after depopulating the planet.
If I understand it correctly, the mechanic seems a bit broken: looks like the policy adds an extra step and allows for new players to shoot in their food.
If building concentration camps without the policy in place gets you only problems, better make the building require the policy.
But then, one of the two seems redundant. If you remove the building you can't control which planets apply the camps and which planets not (once the policy is adopted, all planets with non-capital species would implicitly build camps). If you remove the policy we go back to where we were, with no obvious issues.

Maybe it might be made so that camps make sense without racial purity (i.e. building camps without the policy is not just an error, it brings in some benefits along with the drawbacks), and that it gives more benefits to xenophobic single-species empires (along with the maluses from xenophobia, so that they are pushed to apply concentrations camps everywhere and build Exobots when needed). I will get some time to think on that.
Geoff the Medio wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:46 pm The name refers to the ideal / goal that the empire should be "pure" and contain only a single species. Perhaps "Species Supremacy" would be better?
If Racial Purity is tied to concentration camps and ethnic cleansing, I think Racial Purity makes a lot of sense.

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Racial Purity policy

#4 Post by Geoff the Medio »

Oberlus wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:02 pm...better make the building require the policy.
It does https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/ ... ocs.txt#L6
If you remove the building you can't control which planets apply the camps and which planets not (once the policy is adopted, all planets with non-capital species would implicitly build camps). If you remove the policy we go back to where we were, with no obvious issues.
I don't know what you're talking about. Is this hypothetical, or a claimed problem with the current situation?

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Oberlus
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Re: Racial Purity policy

#5 Post by Oberlus »

Sorry, I missed that part of the building requiring the policy adopted.
So the point of the policy is to penalize empires building concentration camps selectively (but leaving alone empires that builds them to every xeno species)? I like that. Trith with benefits from the policy (as I suggested above) would be more overpowered, so I guess the policy is fine as it is now.

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Racial Purity policy

#6 Post by Geoff the Medio »

The policy unlocks concentration camps and is required to build or keep them. This doesn't have anything specifically to do with whether they are used in lots of places or few places / species, other than that it's a bit more expensive to use the first one than to use the second or later, since a policy needs to be adopted before any can be used. It thus does make using them require a bit more investment and planning and decision about what an empire's values or priorities are. It also does somewhat hide them from players that don't want to use (or see) them by making them unavailable unless the policy is adopted.

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em3
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Re: Racial Purity policy

#7 Post by em3 »

Alternatively, the concentration camps could be replaced with forced labor camps with lesser impact (lesser production bonus, small target population decrease, happiness decrease), and having racial supremacy or racial superiority policy (whatever the final name) would add the depopulation effect while boosting the production bonus...
https://github.com/mmoderau
[...] for Man has earned his right to hold this planet against all comers, by virtue of occasionally producing someone totally batshit insane. - Randall Munroe, title text to xkcd #556

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Krikkitone
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Re: Racial Purity policy

#8 Post by Krikkitone »

How about
Building: Labor camp
effect: +production -happiness for this world

Policy: Racial Supremacy
effect: +production to labor camps
+opinion for capital species
No labor camps for capital species
-opinion for non capital species

Policy: Xenocide
effect: all effects of Racial Supremacy AND -population from labor camps, -opinion for non capital species

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Vezzra
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Re: Racial Purity policy

#9 Post by Vezzra »

@Krikkitone, sounds reasonable.

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LienRag
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Re: Racial Purity policy

#10 Post by LienRag »

@Krikkitone : Not sure that my opinion matters here, but I also like it.

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Racial Purity policy

#11 Post by Geoff the Medio »

Seems unnecessarily complicated...

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Vezzra
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Re: Racial Purity policy

#12 Post by Vezzra »

Geoff the Medio wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 6:49 am Seems unnecessarily complicated...
Interesting... I thought it quite straightforward...

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