Why were laenfa buffed?

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wobbly
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Why were laenfa buffed?

#1 Post by wobbly »

For some reason laenfa are now above average at everything (except troops of course, & ancient galaxies).

Good at production (via the pop bonus)
Good at research (via pop bonus)
Good at colonizing (Broad Tolerance + Pop bonus)
+Planet Stealth
+Detection
Big boost from Distributed Thought Network (Telepathic, Good pop, Broad Planet Tolerance) which they now get earlier (as their research was buffed)

They are literally all pluses outside of bad troops.

I found this
https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/pull/1676

which suggests there was some discussion elsewhere about them being weak, though I haven't managed to find it. I suspect if they were struggling against some races then laenfa weren't the problem. Laenfa were already better then humans which are going to suck more & more if everything else gets buffed.

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LienRag
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Re: Why were laenfa buffed?

#2 Post by LienRag »

Laenfa were quite dependent on luck on middle-aged Galaxies (they needed to have bright stars near their homeworld or they would suffer) and as you pointed very disadvantaged in old Galaxies.
And apparently people don't usually play in young Galaxies...

I proposed to make a pop-boosting Special ("Krill manure") for Phototropic metabolism that would be more frequent in older Galaxies to mitigate the problem Phototropic species face there but it got no answer.

You are right that for now, Laenfa are very powerful in young Galaxies...
Pop bonus is the best advantage of all (maybe a bit less since Oberlus' general nerf, though).

Ophiuchus
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Re: Why were laenfa buffed?

#3 Post by Ophiuchus »

LienRag wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:13 pm Pop bonus is the best advantage of all (maybe a bit less since Oberlus' general nerf, though).
Actually pop bonus got even more buffed as the flat-bonuses got nerfed. Laenfa with good influence they are definitly OP ATM.
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Oberlus
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Re: Why were laenfa buffed?

#4 Post by Oberlus »

Actually, pop. bonus is quite not interesting by itself.

The +/- 25% population affects a small subset of pop-boosting effects:

- Base environment modifier (good +3, adeq. +0, poor -2, host. -4)
- Sym. bio. (+1, +1, +1, +0)
- Xeno. gen. (+0, +2, +2, +1)
- Xeno. hybr. (+0, +0, +1, +2)
- Cyborgs (+0, +0, +0, +2)

Total: (+4, +3, +2, +1).

Any other pop. modifier (phototrophic, HW supply, growth and gaia specials, other techs, etc.) is not affected by the trait. So the population trait affects 28.6% of all pop. bonuses for good planets with gaia, 30% for adeq., 22.2% for poor and 12.5% for hostile. +25% to 30% of your pop is +7.5% to 100% of your pop.

This means that the most you can get from Good Population is equivalent to 1 growth special in good, 0.75 in adeq., 0.5 in poor and 0.25 in host. That amounts to around 8% more population than an average population species (it varies with the availability of good/adeq. planets, but will hardly be better than 10%). So a good pop. species has +8% industry and research than avg. pop. species.


Research and production species traits works similarly, some techs/buildings are affected and some aren't, but the net gain from the Good Production/Research trait is bigger: 50% of the total pop-based industry bonus is affected by the industry trait, and 60% of pop-based research bonuses. And so a good industry species (+50%) gets actually a +25% boost over total industry, and good research gets +30% research. A good industry, avg. pop. species is stronger than a good pop., avg. industry species.


Regarding Laenfa's population, what you can get (or lose) from phototrophic has a stronger effect on balance, but only when too un/lucky on mature or playing young/ancient (30% for all environments). In normal galaxies and uniform luck for all empires Laenfa are worse than Trith and not better suited for victory than Egassem, George or Scylior.

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LienRag
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Re: Why were laenfa buffed?

#5 Post by LienRag »

Thanks for the explanations.

Shouldn't all that be more visible in the Pedia ?

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Oberlus
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Re: Why were laenfa buffed?

#6 Post by Oberlus »

LienRag wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:53 pm Shouldn't all that be more visible in the Pedia ?
I think so. I guess no one took the time to do it.

Each tech/policy effect should indicate in its Pedia article whether it is affected by species traits (effect has higher priority than the species trait) or not (lower priority than species trait).
The species trait's Pedia articles could be more verbose on the expected increases depending on other factors.

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