DESIGN: Buildings / Build Queues / Infrastructure

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skdiw
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#76 Post by skdiw »

If there is a defensive structure, I'd want it to be something like Smac's/Civ's citywalls. If you need more defense on a planet, perhaps because it's a fortress world meant to defend a chokepoint or the location of an important shipyard, then the player would use another build slot to construct a second defensive structure of the same type.
Defense structure is what I was refering to since it's part of the topic. I'm saying you gonna spend way too much time going around each planet and every turn building a structure one by one AND pick out the type you want? Do you really want to spend that much time just to build static planetary defense structures? What happened to KISS

Not on fleet strength. I already suggested a basic formula based on ship sizes to decide fleet str long ago. You want to able to approximate the str but not to the decimal so all you have to do is compare the numbers and you know whether you will win or not.
:mrgreen:

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Ragnar
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#77 Post by Ragnar »

I can live with the three types of ships concept.

One thing we need to figure out is how to get system ships and starbases into systems without shipyards. Do we allow any planet to build these types? even Large sizes? (this might hose up the whole UI/shipyard concept having to micro these other build queues) Or do we have the shipyards build them and somehow transport them to the system you want them at? (somewhat unrealistic within the game framework, time delays?, build "tugs" to move them and them maybe remove them?)

Ground based defenses would, of course, not involve the shipyards.

guiguibaah
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Skipping from one system to the next.

#78 Post by guiguibaah »

- I think the ability to skip from one system to the next (like the jumpgates they had in WingCommander or Freespace) could be done depending on how the combat was implemented. Maybe on the map you would hvae 2 points (in the entire system view), and you simply had to move your fleet from A to B. Oh, and you'd have to run the gauntlet if your enemy put up defences / ships.

- - -

Back to the building aspect...

- My personal preference would be to have a system where you could go into each planet and tinker with them (like the slot idea that was proposed earlier with moon bases)- but at the same time, have it extrapolated for the planets I don't want to see. I'll probably be doing a little more fussing on my border worlds than I will on my homecore planets.

- My other personal preference, is to make buildings automatically upgrade with the appropriate technology. That way you don't have to visit each and every planet and tell it to build a 'robotics factory' (the better version of an 'Automated factory'). You research it, and your factories are automatically upgraded in 3 turns (or so).

It keeps things a little simpler

Anyways :)
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skdiw
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#79 Post by skdiw »

I would like to see that all the basic buildings are determined solely on your focus. It doesn't have to be buildings to represent the resource or output, it could be some analog number.

Few important buildings can be buildings. Special powerful expensive buildings or wonders can be buildings that you have to specify to build.

I think you definately need some natural defense. How annoying is it in moo1 when some player sends a scout ship that destroy a planet that took you 50 turns to develop because you have overlook this one planet because you control 100 other planets and other things that you have to deal with? Some static defense is necessary and it should be simple to interface and not specify each and every individual buildings for a specified type and do that 100 times over on top of everything else.
:mrgreen:

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#80 Post by Daveybaby »

You cant tie planetary defence to economic focus - they are completely independent factors.

Have a simple defence level for each planet (say, range 1-5). Thus there is minimal micro in setting a defence level for a planet.

Then, allow the player to define what gets built at each defence level.

e.g.
level 1 = no defences.
level 2 = add planetary shield, missile base
level 3 = add 1 type X starbase
level 4 = add 2 more type X starbases
level 5 = add 2 type Y and 2 type Z starbases

These defence levels can be changed as the game progresses.

Thus you have complete player control with no micro on a planet to planet basis, just a central set of defence models.
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Rapunzel
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#81 Post by Rapunzel »

I like the idea of different levels of defence. simply changing these on the planetary list via drop down menue for singel planets or a bunch of them. This way I only have to bother to update the levels of defence (lod) table every now an then with new tech or greater need of security.
It shuld still need time to build these, so no one picks a new level just before an attack and the upkeep of such defensive strucktures should be great enough, so that it would mean some big drawback to have level 5 on all planets.
these lod are appart of normal Buildings, so special "wonder"-defence buildings can still be build seperately like all other special buildings build manually.
Spacestations should not be in the lod since they are not buildings on a planet. We have to decide a bunch of things on system level, before we can decide on were and how to build stations, mines, satelites and how to place them.
Dieser Text basiert ausschließlich auf frei erfundener Interpunktion und Orthographie. Jegliche Uebereinstimmungen mit geltenden Regelungen sind rein zufaellig und wurden nicht beabsichtigt.

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Ragnar
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#82 Post by Ragnar »

I prefer the defense levels method, over any other solutions presented for planetary defense. Basically separate from focus and buildings. Although, I agree with Rapunzel on keeping system defenses separate. Maybe the levels would be more like:

1=no defense
2=missile base
3=missile base + shield
4=missile base + shield + beam battery
5=missile base X2 + shield + beam battery X2

Do we want to add bunker networks or something in there that helps ground troops or leave that as a special building?

If we implement the macro tools presented in other posts, setting defense levels would be very easy: [all industry planets] build [level 3 defense] ,
[sector capitols] build [level 5 defense]

noelte
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#83 Post by noelte »

i'm not sure if i like the suggested defence lvl system, but i we have some kind of it , i would prefer that the player can define his/her own combination.

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Ragnar
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#84 Post by Ragnar »

Right. The player should decide the levels, like Rapunzel said. I guess I should have been more clear that it was an example I gave and specifically taking out the starbases. They should be separate.

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utilae
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#85 Post by utilae »

If Defense is a focus, ie you could go:
Primary: Farms
Secondary: Defense

Then it should build the defense buildings itself, right. And whether the defense is a missile base, laser battery, fighter garrison or other defenses it would build a variety, perhaps. Though I don't know how we could make it build specific types of defense, maybe we could also designate a level of defense, like what you guy's have been talking about.

Here's an idea for levels:
Ground-to-Ground defenses (eg. turret - kills groun d troops)
Ground-to-Space defenses (eg. laser battery- kills ships)
Space-to-Space defenses (eg. space station)
Special (eg Planet shield)

So you would just say whether to build one of those types or a balance. I put plant shield in special, cause I am not sure where that goes. Also fighters would be 'ground-to-space'. Thats how I imagine defenses could be grouped into meaningful levels. 8)

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#86 Post by Rapunzel »

first of all Spacestations are jet undecided on how to place build them and where you can do such stuff. maby you can desighn them. that placement and desighn is very specific and should not be automized.
second. qhy make it a focus? That would mean i cant defned a
1: Industry
2: Mining
PLanet just because there are only two focus's ??

PLanet defence should be seperate from buildings and focus.
Dieser Text basiert ausschließlich auf frei erfundener Interpunktion und Orthographie. Jegliche Uebereinstimmungen mit geltenden Regelungen sind rein zufaellig und wurden nicht beabsichtigt.

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utilae
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#87 Post by utilae »

Well that just means we need a thrid focus. And that should be all we need. So we can have:
Industry
Mining
Defense

Maybe spacestations would not be built using focus, but other space-to-space defenses could, like:
space mines,
statelites.

Rapunzel
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#88 Post by Rapunzel »

sounds good to me.
just the thing is. were does it place mines. do your own ships have to evade them as well but only see them (which would make them powerfull but with a bad tste to it) and satelites coudl be build, and still be placed at unsettled planets or in space...

but overall .... agreed :)
Dieser Text basiert ausschließlich auf frei erfundener Interpunktion und Orthographie. Jegliche Uebereinstimmungen mit geltenden Regelungen sind rein zufaellig und wurden nicht beabsichtigt.

PowerCrazy
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#89 Post by PowerCrazy »

Ok i've got it. Assuming we are going with the minimal buildings aspect.

Defense is determined by your planets infrastructure level. Basically infrastructure level is a number from 1-100 that tells you how "developed" your planet is. It goes up everyturn as the planet builds things and the population grows. Its similiar to Moo1s industry level but you aren't actually doing anything.

This number would also be used by players to determine where to build a ship yard/wonder/special building and to determine where their "sweet spot" planets are.

So as the planet is developing it is also defending itself. Thus a planet will have defences scaled about like this.
lvl 1 1-20%
lvl 2 21-40%
lvl 3 41-60%
lvl 4 61-80%
lvl 5 81-99%
(lvl 6 100%)

I am assuming that it takes a LONG time for you to get a 100% infrastructure rating. Thus a planet like that is VERY valuable.

One advantage if this besides the obvious reduction of management is that it allows non industrial worlds to have defences. Thus my sweet spot farming world would be able to defend itself adequetly from a raiding party. Also I'd assume that the higher the defense lvl the higher the bonus for any ships also defending.

These are the "innate" defences of a planet and are essentially free.
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pd
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#90 Post by pd »

this is the perfect solution in my mind :)

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