Music

Samples of sound/music, ideas or suggestions related to the development of audio assets for FreeOrion.
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Geoff the Medio
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Music

#1 Post by Geoff the Medio »

human2 wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:09 amAnd I'd be more interested writing music than coding... I hardly ever do it but it I believe I have far more skill in that area than art or programming.

Where would I start?
Perhaps by writing some music to submit / release for FreeOrion to use? Background music is a rather important but severely neglected aspect of the game... The same single track has been the only one included for 15ish years now...

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LienRag
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Re: Customizing the game

#2 Post by LienRag »

Geoff the Medio wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:51 am
human2 wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:09 amAnd I'd be more interested writing music than coding... I hardly ever do it but it I believe I have far more skill in that area than art or programming.

Where would I start?
Perhaps by writing some music to submit / release for FreeOrion to use? Background music is a rather important but severely neglected aspect of the game... The same single track has been the only one included for 15ish years now...
There's a lot of free-licensed music around (some of it quite good) so if you have talent for sampling (not only writing music itself) the game would indeed benefit from your work (if you like to do such things, obviously) even more (since you'd be able to make a full audio environment).
Themed music for ships would be great but I'm not sure it would blend well with the game mechanics, maybe themed music by screen, or even by planet system (if you can make the music fade harmoniously from one theme to the next, of course - I guess that's quite a lot of work though) ?

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Re: Customizing the game

#3 Post by human2 »

Ok, I'm not promising anything because I don't want to get your hopes up because sometimes I have time like last night but most of the time I don't. But I would love to write music for the game.

I don't know how you guys play the game but I usually play against the AI and it takes hours. There's no way I could listen to one song over and over like that. I also go back and forth between the different screens so much I'm not sure how that would work. I turned the music off so I don't even know what's there now. So I'll think about how to do the in-game music. I've never played the original Masters of Orion so I have no idea what music it has. Galaxy on Fire is what I immediately think of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlWysAl5PwI

In the meantime, if I did something right now I'd start with the title screen. It's a good way to test this out too to see if I can even get ideas and come up with something. But what style do you guys want? Star Wars, Star Trek, BattleStar Galactica, Aliens, Stargate, Predator, Serenity, Riddick, Interstellar, Expanse, Stranger Things, Twilight Zone, Outer Limits, 60's scifi electronic sine waves, etc? I'm not sure what I would pick if it were up to me.

The title screen music will be a lot different from the in-game music because it can be shorter and have more of an obvious theme because it wont repeat over and over. Endless repetition actually has a physiological effect that usually turns off parts of the brain (it's why war drums are so repetitive, it was meant to make the the other side loose their resolve). This is why the Galaxy on Fire music is mostly ambient processed noises until there is a battle scene or cutscene.

As far as license I don't care. If I write it for the game as far as I'm concerned it belongs to the game.

Should I start a new thread on this? Edit: Looks like someone moved this to a new thread!

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Re: Music

#4 Post by Oberlus »

I sometimes play with 1984's Dune's BSO on the background (FO music has been off in my config file for years, it put me to sleep).
As long as it is ambient music that reminds me of space, alien and tech it's cool.

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Re: Customizing the game

#5 Post by Geoff the Medio »

human2 wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:31 pmIn the meantime, if I did one piece right now I'd start with the title screen. It's a good way to test this out too to see if I can even get ideas and come up with something. But what style do you guys want? Star Wars, Star Trek, BattleStar Galactica, Aliens, Stargate, Predator, Serenity, Riddick, Interstellar, Expanse, Twilight Zone, Outer Limits, etc?
The main Stargate movie theme is rather Star Warsy, particularly in how it transitions from the end of the fanfare into fluttery woodwinds. The opening in-your-face fanfare of Star Wars would be a bit much.

Something like Interstellar would also be great. Parts have some similarities to the Artificial Intelligence track that is included with FreeOrion.

A spacey nonvocal version of Civ4/Baba Yetu would be nice, though it starts a bit too slow probably.

Something Baldur's Gate 2y would also fit.
Should I start a new thread on this?
I split the last few posts out.

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Re: Music

#6 Post by Oberlus »

Oh, also Solaris (2002), Blade Runner (1982), and something gloomy and heavy like Dark City (1998) for when you feel like ruling the Harkoonen or the Necromongers in their galaxy conquest.

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Re: Music

#7 Post by human2 »

Ok, this is pretty much what I was thinking too. I'll think about it and when I have time I'll see if I can come up with something.

Who wrote AI 3? I can't believe how much it sounds like Interstellar's theme.

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Re: Music

#8 Post by Geoff the Medio »

human2 wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:55 pmWho wrote AI 3? I can't believe how much it sounds like Interstellar's theme.
LithiumMongoose / Kenneth Welch: viewtopic.php?p=12716#p12716

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Re: Music

#9 Post by human2 »

I'm getting ideas now around the in-game music. This might be a little strange but I actually think the in-game audio should reflect what is happening in the sit report. Honestly, sometimes when playing, there's nothing to do so I just keep clicking "next turn". It would be great if the audio reflected that something happened. For example, when a large fleet is headed towards a player's large fleet there should be a negative battle jingle. If a players' large fleet is headed towards an enemy's large fleet, it should be a positive battle jingle. If enemy troops are headed towards a player's planet, it should be a desperate battle jingle, especially if it's the capital (does anyone actually keep playing if it gets this bad?). New colonies, ships, buildings, techs, etc should be happy jingles. Combinations of events should produce some sort of mix. Because turns could be short, the audio needs to immediately convey the message (which is why I'm calling them jingles). But because turns could take forever, the audio also needs to have a way to last without just repeating endlessly.

In other words, there needs to be jingles based on the sit report. But there also needs to be a longer background music based on winning. That could be based on population or other stat grown or shrinkage. It could also reflect the perceived balance between the players. In other words, there would have to be a way of judging who is winning and who is losing. The Empires window shows that. So there should be both a short term sit report jingle and a longer background music/ambience would also who is winning. I've never looked at the graphs but it looks like probably contain something the audio could use. They can be related too. Any sign of Experimentors would immediately trigger special music.

Also, certain techs or race choices should affect the background music. I always play humans. But if a different race were chosen, like a psionic race or a production based race that should be reflected in the background music. Or if the humans have more learning tech than production tech, this should impact the music as well. And certain techs should trigger changes as well.

In a way, the game is all scifi movies put together. But depending on what techs are researched determines if the game is more Star Wars, Alien, or Riddick. This is actually why I want to make it so certain techs can't be researched, to kind of change which genre the particular game is. The music should reflect this. It would be interesting to put together different game scenarios like, all players are human and nothing can be researched or built that isn't possible with known physics (except FTL travel I guess), which is basically what Star Wars is (the aliens are insignificant to the movie story so it might as well be all-human). Star Trek follows this premise too, except that it has a more known physics exceptions and Vulkans move it into the more psionic realm. I should start a new thread on some of my ideas about this but I should get back to work, I've already spent way longer typing this then I ever meant to.

Basically, I think some researched techs should disallow other research techs. I know building Concentration Camps have penalties, but researching it should make certain learning techs impossible. I think the ship building techs should also have branches. If you try to try to research them all, you will be horribly behind a player who puts all of the research points into just one branch. And different races should favor different branches, and different branches should be more balanced, so a player that researches organic ships can defend against a player that researches energy or robotic ships. Maybe this is already the case I just haven't figured it out yet! LOL. I always go from Robotic to Gravitational Hulls to Titan hulls and so that part of the game is always the same for me. So I got rid of those hulls to try to change the game up a little bit.

I'm not sure switching views or adding things to the production or research queues warrants audio feedback.

I'm sure all of this would take some programming to hook up. Blending songs is always preferred. I don't like it when music suddenly stops and something else starts unless doing so actually conveys a message (like, stop everything, you are about to die). At a minimum it needs to at least fade out over a few seconds. Certain types of ambient type music can be easily blended from one to another like how DJ's mix songs but it would need to be programmed and I've never actually done audio programming.

I'll have to think about this more. I'm working but I can't help but having these ideas. So yeah that's the only reason I'm replying now. Holy cow I wrote a lot... I need to get back to work. I'm resisting the urge to go back and edit this message to improve it.

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Re: Music

#10 Post by human2 »

I think humans would prefer to build machines than live in organic ships. Do you think a machine race would prefer to harvest life forms for ships? :lol:

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Re: Music

#11 Post by human2 »

Ugh, I can't quit thinking about this. I will just write this up and then get back to work.

Basically what I'm saying is that the background audio needs to have a lot of branches basically like the planet spectrum. I haven't studied it but I know different races do better on different planet types. I'm not sure but I would think different races would favor different techs as well. I'm not sure how this would be plotted out. One extreme is mysterious music for races that favor tech and psionics. Another extreme is music for robotic/production races (I don't know what this would be like but techno seems to come to mind). Then there's dark music for the Nercomancers, i.e. anyone who researches concentration camps or weapons that reduce populations. I'm not sure this is a "branch" though. It seems like it should be.

I seriously think there should be hidden features on planets. Basically the Alien/Body-Snatcher angle. Like, in the Sit Report a planet reports that an existing structure contained strange things then suddenly communication stops with that planet. If ships were present at that planet or are sent there, they go rouge but the player doesn't know it, they just don't obey the all of the player's orders and any planet they go to they infect it. It would be awesome in fact to have ships that always obey the player except when told to engage in battle. Then they either flee or turn on the player. And instead of turning a fleet rouge (white) automatically, the player would have to notice which ships aren't obeying orders and the player would have to mark them as rouge so they can be attacked. Obviously if a rouge ship fires on the player it would turn white automatically. FUN!

And there would have to be other reasons why this happens to make it so that the player doesn't know which one it is.

Anyway, so there would be something like 9 main background tracks (or 3 with 2 in-between versions that kind of blend between the different extremes). And in each of those, there would be versions that reflect the phase or winning status of the game. Different phases include starting, first contact with an enemy player, and the perceived balance of power with that player (I just thought that even though players can't see another empire's total production unless their sensors are huge, obviously at first contact one empire would be able to immediately see if the other empire's tech were superior). For example, if a player only has Robotic Hulls and Lasers and another empire has ships with Death Rays, that's very bad. Other phases basically reflect the balance of power from losing to winning but also things like evidence of Experimentors. I'm not sure how this would work.

I obviously have gotten hooked with thinking about this. Geez, I'm going to have to put in extra hours to make up for the time I've been spending on this... Sigh. Got to get back to work.

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Re: Music

#12 Post by human2 »

Ok, here's 30 seconds just kind of messing around. http://magnusviri.com/FreeOrionTheme.mp3

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Re: Music

#13 Post by Oberlus »

human2 wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:32 am Ok, here's 30 seconds just kind of messing around. http://magnusviri.com/FreeOrionTheme.mp3
I like it!

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Re: Music

#14 Post by LienRag »

human2 wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:32 am Ok, here's 30 seconds just kind of messing around. http://magnusviri.com/FreeOrionTheme.mp3
As an example it's quite nice but after 10 minutes of the same I'd go crazy...
(I originally made a typo and wrote "I'd go cray" which was weirdly appropriate).

human2 wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:59 pm I'm getting ideas now around the in-game music. This might be a little strange but I actually think the in-game audio should reflect what is happening in the sit report. Honestly, sometimes when playing, there's nothing to do so I just keep clicking "next turn". It would be great if the audio reflected that something happened. For example, when a large fleet is headed towards a player's large fleet there should be a negative battle jingle. If a players' large fleet is headed towards an enemy's large fleet, it should be a positive battle jingle. If enemy troops are headed towards a player's planet, it should be a desperate battle jingle, especially if it's the capital (does anyone actually keep playing if it gets this bad?). New colonies, ships, buildings, techs, etc should be happy jingles. Combinations of events should produce some sort of mix. Because turns could be short, the audio needs to immediately convey the message (which is why I'm calling them jingles). But because turns could take forever, the audio also needs to have a way to last without just repeating endlessly.

In other words, there needs to be jingles based on the sit report. But there also needs to be a longer background music based on winning. That could be based on population or other stat grown or shrinkage. It could also reflect the perceived balance between the players. In other words, there would have to be a way of judging who is winning and who is losing. The Empires window shows that. So there should be both a short term sit report jingle and a longer background music/ambience would also who is winning. I've never looked at the graphs but it looks like probably contain something the audio could use. They can be related too. Any sign of Experimentors would immediately trigger special music.

Also, certain techs or race choices should affect the background music. I always play humans. But if a different race were chosen, like a psionic race or a production based race that should be reflected in the background music. Or if the humans have more learning tech than production tech, this should impact the music as well. And certain techs should trigger changes as well.

A lot of very good ideas, is there a way you could do that in an incremental manner ?
That way it would be usable quite soon and not wait for you to complete a ginormous amount of work on your free time.

Maybe a simpler way to start with would be to have a music theme for all techs (or tech branches) that would play as long as the tech is researched ? With a fading away mechanism of course (maybe make the volume lower when the tech is nearing its completion ?).

If you really want to compose everything yourself, enjoy ! But it would certainly be quicker if you planned to use free-licensed music already existing. You do you, of course.
License is important, though. Both for samples (or full pieces) that you would use, and for your own work : you need to put it under a specific license (GPL 3.0 for the code but I'm not sure for the arts).

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Re: Music

#15 Post by Oberlus »

Expanding on this ideas:


In many games the music depends on the environment you are (different music if you are in a dark dungeon or under the sun) and/or the type of situation (different music when an enemy targets you or when you are out of combat).

Different background music depending on
- The environment or species of selected planet -> only if these are jingles, because switching real music themes each time you click on a different planet would be crazy.
- The species of the capital of the selected planet -> this might make more sense (not so many changes, selecting your arch-enemy's Egassem planet will let you hear the impending doom).
- Some three different jingles that play when you open a combat report, one for obvious loses, one for objective draws, one for obvious victories. I like the idea of plying different jingles depending on the type of sitreps you got that turn, but it could be crazy when you have many sitreps of many types in the same turn (battle victories, loses, incoming enemy fleets, own fleets arriving to enemy spots, monsters incoming, new tech research, new building completed, new colony, new outpost, planet under attack...).
- Tech being researched -> how do you determine the theme to play when you have many techs in the queue getting RPs? Maybe the most expensive one dominates.
- General feeling of the empire: if it is losing planets or fleets (should be easy to determine from game statistics), doomy or stressed music, better if it relates to combat; if the empire is quickly increasing population or fleet army, music that goes well with thriving and victory.

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