FreeOrion

You misunderstand, i didn't say outposts should be faster,
i said they shouldn't be slower.
They (in my view) extend supply lines because you can put them in systems where you can't or shouldn't put colonies.

It makes no sense to put an outpost on a colony, maybe in the same system, but not on the same planet. If you put an colony on an outpost, all you would have left is a colony.

As insurance against blockades, the potential of longer supply lines from any and every planet would always be desirable. I think your "starport " would be much like MoO2's "build everywhere" buildings.

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Well it sounded like you wanted them to give supply lines instantly (ie build them) And Any building that gives a benefit would be useful to build everywhere as a guard against it getting captured (unless it comes with penalties associated) [you took over Psi Corps HQ.. well we are fine, there is one on every planet.


On Outposts, as long as they don't get the supply lane faster than a colony, then it seems like it woud be fine

I like the idea!

When I have played FreeOrion, I place outposts on all Gas Giants and Asteroids I can. Orbital Farming, Autolabs and Autofactories work on them, so they produce food, Research and Industry.

If outposts can have upgrades built on them, they would be built everywhere.

If different kinds of outposts could be built it would be better.

But why not give outposts a different set of focusses to colonies.

Listening posts could be outposts with a detection focus. Mining outposts would have mining focus. Supply outposts would have construction focus. I don't like that newly placed outposts have farming focus (which is often zero)

Current colonies can focus in Farming, Industry, Mining or Research. I'm assuming Trade will be added.
Planets have more meters than this - including Construction, Supply, Shield etc. Any of these could be the target of a focus, some make sence for outposts.

In any case I think a colony should be buildable on an outpost - regardless of species. A colony of another species to a current outpost could be assumed to include the original outpost inhabitants, but the number would be too small to effect the species bonuses and penalties applied to the planet. It would make sence when designing the game to make sure that colonies have all the abilities of outposts, so that we don't loose anything when a colony is placed on an outpost.

I also think that building outposts should require lower tech ship parts than a colony. Putting 100 guys on a planet (even an uninhabitable one) is easier than setting up a world for millions.

I don't think outposts should be able to produce resources, because that motivates the player to put an outpost on every single uninhabitable planet within you borders, which is sort of a pain.

Just being sources of resource supply lines and detection is adequate, I think.

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So if outposts have no population,
and produce no resources,

Is there any reason to have each outpost tagged with a species?

If we consider them "unmanned" stations that would help distinguish them from colonies. Without a species, they also wouldn't get any species bonuses for anything, or be effected by any citizen based effects, like unrest, rebellion, or whatever we have. They wouldn't be defended by ground troops, but still could have shield and space defenses.

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I guess that depends. Should certain species get bonuses to stuff like planetary detection/stealth/resource supply/fleet supply? If so, then it makes sense for outposts to be associated with a particular species, and be affected by unrest and rebellion, in which case it makes sense for them to be defended by ground troops.

On the other hand, if rebel ground troops are typically spawned based on the population of the planet, and planetary ground troop meters are typically dependent on the population of the planet, it wouldn't make much sense for ground troops to be spawned from a planet with no population.

On the other hand, it would be relatively easy to make a few outpost-specific rules for ground troops on outposts.

I guess it just comes down to the scope of what we want species to affect. I don't really have an opinion on the matter at this point.

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Ships have a species, so Outposts should have a species. If we have research or mining outposts, then species should matter.

Outposts could be treated like stationary ships.

I think it should be possible to board ships, so ships should have some kind of troop meter, even if they cannot invade planets. Maybe troop ships should be the most difficult to board, since they have so many troops. If ships and outposts have troops then there is another reason why they need a species.

I like the idea that outposts can grow into colonies, especially via terraforming. The speed could be adjusted though.

As an aside, I had a strange experience recently where I used a Cryo-colony ship (2 population) to start outposts on two hostile planets. I got the ancient artifact bonus from one and then it starved to death on the same turn - I had supply to the colony and Orbital Farms technology. the second outpost also starved the same turn I established it. Using an Outpost ship I had no problems. I have also seen that my outposts, on hostile or uninhabitable worlds, often grow beyond 0.1 population, sometimes as high as 1.0, though they stay as Outposts if I don't terraform them.

Hi first time here so bear with me plz.
1. So the way I see it your outpost question comes down to is it a land base or space base?
Space base
-Are basely space ship with no engines
-Can Provide detection, research, Intel, supplyies, repair.
-Does Not provide any raw material resource however.
-Can be build in a no planet system.
Land Base
- Mini colonies with much longer build time for facilities, smaller work force.
- Able to grow into a real colony once Pop is large enought and infrastructure is build to support.

2. Both should get species bonus unless either is ran by machines completely.

3. Troop should be base on Pop, unless the players adds a facility with a troop bonus or just troops to the planet.

Thanks for read and thanks for the game.

Not quite.. even a "land base" outpost would not just be a small pop colony [that's what it currently is, but that needs to change]. Instead both of them would be a sort of immobile ship (just one would be an immobile ship that is on a planet.)

However, ships do not provide supply, Outposts probably should.

I do agree that things built on an outpost (if they can also be built on a colony) should probably have a longer minimum build time.

But anything on a planet, even a ship, can be turn into a colony based on funding and the willingness of people to live there. Can you Please give an example where this is not poss. on this planet?

If i understand what you are saying, your point is: "the rules should be this way because that's how things work in real life."

We are approaching the game design differently. We aren't trying to make anything remotely like a realistic simulation -- instead we're trying to make a game that's fun. See our game design philosophy.

http://www.freeorion.org/index.php/Philosophy#Realism

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Those don't seem like especially interesting things for species pics, though i am currently using stealth as the only currently possible way to make a species sneaky and spy-like.

For asteroids and gas giants, i think we could go either way depending on how we script it:
1) these outposts provide a resource bonus to planets in the system, or
2) make them a full-fledged variant of colonies

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EDIT: Split from a less relevant topic. You may find the answers in this thread-- but if not this is a better place to raise the question.
--eleazar


Since you cannot build a colony on an Asteroid Belt, removing any resource gathering from Outposts makes Asteroid Mining, and the improved version, completely worthless techs.

While I agree that, as they stand, outposts are far too powerful (My Decentralized Distribution of Supplies startup build which spams out outposts to everywhere you can reach, mostly producing additional research unless there are high mineral content planets), let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater either.

Would the tech Asteroid Mining then bypass this normal prohibition on resource gathering? Could other techs be implemented to turn an Outpost into one specific type? For example:

When you get the tech Environmental Encapsulation, you can build Outpost Modules to create Outpost Ships. When you get the tech Asteroid Mining, you get a Mining Module whose only use is to be placed on the same ship as an Outpost Module to create a Mining Outpost, which can produce Minerals as a resource. Other techs can be put in place for Industry, Research, and Farming. An outpost can only take advantage of one resource module type, regardless of how many may be on the ship at the time of colonization. Either make resource modules mutually exclusive (I don't know how this would be implemented), or a ship containing multiple resource modules, upon colonization of an outpost, gives the player the option to chose one that it then permanently becomes.

If that gets too complicated, then you could, for example, have this:

When you get Environmental Encapsulation, you can build Outpost Modules. When you get Asteroid Mining, you can build Mining Outpost Modules, which are a different beastie all together, and allows mining on that outpost. Other techs would make Farming Outpost Modules, Research Outpost modules, and Industry Outpost Modules. Actually, since Industry is a factor of population, just skip that one entirely.

Also, outposts should be fairly 'self sufficient', otherwise all you have to do is break the supply line for one turn and wipe it out completely through starvation without needing to land a single ship on the system, and bypassing any fixed or mobile defenses in that system entirely. We currently have Orbital Farming allowing them to grow enough food to feed themselves, plus a generous surplus, but if they are unable to produce any food, with an 'effective' population of .1, they starve in one round if the supply line is broken.

Or they could just not give any bonuses to resources anywhere. The species bonuses are still relevant to stealth/detection/troops/etc.

Yes, if that were to happen, that tech would simply be removed.

They will be unable to produce any food either, but they also won't have any population, and will therefore be immune to starvation. The point of blockading an outpost would be to get rid of its resource/fleet supply capability, or to halt production there.

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